AV2HDMI SMS and SMD video issue

New to the forums and looking to start recording videos. I bought a av2hdmi to use with my old consoles and the elgato hd60. This works great with my original xbox and 360 but when i use it with my master system or megadrive it only shows in black and white. They work normally when plugged straight into the tv though.

Any help is appreciated as im out of ideas

 

does it have any sort of pal region settings? it most likely only works for ntsc

 

Hi thanks for replying, its a pal console (im in the pal region). The master system i modded for 50/60hz and composite video. The megadrive is untouched at the minute.

Both consoles have this issue of black and white (even when in 60hz/ntsc mode)

 

It does sound like a NTSC converter trying to work with a PAL signal. Even if you have 50/60hz modded the SMS, it still outputs a PAL signal, just at 60hz, which should work with the converter unless the output from the console is non-standard at that point.

 

So its the converter seems to be the issue?

Any reason it would work with my pal xbox's and not the older systems (is it because the newer systems are RF?).

Haven't had a chance to test with my other consoles (n64 etc) but assume they'll have the same issue. I've seen a UK youtuber use the same type of box with no issue, should I order a different one?

 

So, it works with sms to av2hdmi to tv?

Any way to test sms to elgato to tv?

If you get a black and white picture with both of those scenarios, then i'd say its the consoles output causing the issue. If you get black and white with the av2hdmi and not the elgato, then its the av2hdmi device, and vice versa.

 

Hey sorry for the confusion, the sms and smd both work when plugged directly to the tv. Once I plug either into the av2hdmi then they both only show up in black and white.
My elgato is the HD60 so it only has HDMI connections so no way to test the consoles without the av2hdmi box unfortunately.

(Ive tested composite to av2hdmi to tv and composite to av2hdmi to elgato to tv)

I was going to try and do a trade on another forum for the elgato with the composite ports but dont want to if it's not needed or incase its a console issue.

 

Does the av2hdmi device has a switch on it? If so, have you tried it?

 

It just has the 720p or 1080p switch, yea tried that as well

 

Update : Just tried my n64 with the av2hdmi and it worked perfectly, only thing I can think is that its the sega consoles causing the black and white issue. I dont have the nes or snes to test yet.

Anyone any ideas?

 

If I may make a suggestion, it might be wise to invest in a more capable upscaler and better quality cables. The Mega Drive optimizes through RGB SCART. I use this device for anything that supports composite or RGB: http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCART-HD...415920?hash=item43fb915a70:g:VL4AAOSw2xRYa5Q2

It automatically detects whether the input is PAL or NTSC and has a button allowing you to toggle the output between 50Hz and 60Hz.
My Mega Drive looks great through this thing hooked up with an RGB SCART cable, and it's in full colour. I don't have a Master System, but I do have a Master System Converter II for the Mega Drive. Same results. I also have an At Games Mega Drive with composite out, even that looks pretty good through it. Not as good as RGB, but it's an improvement over plugging it into a HDTV or DVD recorder.

I don't know why you're using composite with the Xbox and Xbox 360, because the former uses component cables and the latter uses HDMI. The N64 uses S-video (tip though, look for a SHIELDED S-video cable that's specifically intended for a PAL region). For the Xbox you should buy a component to HDMI upscaler and an S-video to HDMI upscaler. Hope that helps.

 

Thanks for the suggestion, I only set the xbox's up that way to test the converter, ill be using hdmi on the elgato for the HDMI consoles.

That converter looks like something I could use, im just not sure if it'd be better to just trade my HD60 for the elgato hd as it has all the components I need, component, composite, s-video and hdmi. Didn't know that about the n64 so thanks for that.

 

I use an Elgato Game Capture HD. It indeed can accept the resolutions of retro games through its analog input. But only with composite or S-video. For reasons unknown, it won't accept 240p or 288p through component. I don't have an S-video adapter, but I was not impressed with the quality of composite. RGB SCART is the way to go. I only use the Elgato's component input for my PS3 and the RCA audio on my desktop PC (video comes from a DVI to HDMI). I used to the component input with my Xbox and it looked greats. Only recently I switched over to a Component to HDMI, simply because I wanted to upscale the Xbox to HD.

If you don't care about upscaling the footage on your Xbox, the Elgato Game Capture HD is probably the way to go. If you want to upscale it, get a Component to HDMI.

You didn't ask about this, but I'll bring it up now. The SCART upscaler I linked to above also has a HDMI 1.3 input. Meaning if you plug a PS3, PS4, PSTV or Bluray player into it, it'll strip the copy protection. Nice little bonus feature.

 

Good to know. I'm basically looking to be able to record footage for youtube, a person I watch (easter egg hunter) uses the elgato hd and quality looks great, so most of the old consoles support s-video/rgb?

 

The short answer, is that most consoles will optimize through RGB. What cable works best with what is console specific and sometimes region specific.

The only consoles that optimize in quality through S-video are the N64, the 3DO, and the Amiga CD32. Similarly, the only consoles that optimize through composite video (not including after market clone systems or later budget models) are the original NES, PC Engine (TurboGrafx-16) and some of the more obscure retro consoles.

Essentially all the other consoles of the late 80s, the 90s, and to some extent the early 2000s support RGB SCART. The original Sega Master System, Sega Mega Drive (and all its add-ons), Sega Saturn, PS1, SNES, Atari Jaguar, certain CD-i models, they all optimize through RGB SCART. Sega stripped RGB on the Master System II, but you can restore RGB SCART compatibility to it through modification. It's also worth noting that there are different types of RGB SCART cables too. The three types you're most likely to use is RGB Sync on Composite (which borrows sync from composite video signal), RGB Sync on Luma (which borrows sync from S-video signal), and Composite Sync or Csync (which has a separate wire purely for the sync information). Which sync works best is very console and region specific. But fear not, the best RGB cables I purchased are from this website, which has everything organized depending on console and sync information.
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/

When you get into consoles from the early 2000s you have a few options. The Sega Dreamcast supports RGB SCART, but it also supports VGA. VGA was used to enable 480p resolutions, even on PAL systems. However, for whatever reason certain Dreamcast games don't support VGA mode and an even smaller number of games don't support RGB! To get around those compatibility issues, Sega and various third parties released a little adapter that has an output for VGA and an output for composite/S-video. It also has a little switch to toggle between VGA and AV/S-video.

So for the Dreamcast, you'd want to send the VGA signal to a VGA to HDMI and the S-video to an S-video to HDMI upscaler. The only other console I know of that supports VGA is the Apple Pippin.

The other consoles from the 2000s on the other hand, i.e. the PS2, PSP, Xbox, GameCube and Wii, used component for 480p and even HD resolutions. However, it's not very clear cut. Microsoft disabled 480p, 720p and 1080i resolutions on PAL versions of Xbox. Unless you have a mod-chipped Xbox or a component to HDMI upscaler, you're going to be limited to 576i. Nintendo also disabled 480p on the GameCube and Wii. They support composite and component regardless of region, but only PAL units support RGB while only NTSC units support S-video. GameCube component cables are ridiculously expensive and offer the same level of quality as RGB SCART. So since you can't take advantage of the progressive scanning, you're better off getting the SCART cable for the GameCube. The Wii has cheaper component cables, but you can also buy HDMI adapters. These adapters take the component signal and convert it to digital, they also give a boost to the brightness. The one commonly available is the Wii2HDMI, which only converts to HDMI without any upscaling (ignore the 1080p printed on it, it's a false advertisment). If you want a Wii HDMI adapter that upscales, get the Lenkeng LKV6000 mini.

For the most part they work, just be aware of Virtual Console titles like Castlevania that don't support component. The only option for those is to swap the adapter or component cables with normal AV cables. You could swap them out with an RGB SCART cable, however Nintendo being Nintendo cheaped out on quality. The official Wii RGB cable has poor shielding, and so the picture it produces is too noisy for my tastes, ironically I prefer the Wii composite video!

Only the PlayStation consoles retained progressive scanning in PAL regions. However, these also have some considerations. All PSP games will output at 480p through component cables. However, the image is displayed in a tiny window. If you want to fill the screen and upscale the image, Lenkeng also released an upscaler specifically for the PSP. It's called the LKV8000. It upscales the image to 720p or 1080p and has a little ZOOM button that allows you to fill the screen. However, I'd only recommend this scaler if you can afford it - they are now in short supply and fetch ridiculous prices on ebay. $700AU!? I'm so glad I purchased one when they were much cheaper.

The PlayStation 2 is a more strange case. It supports 480p on certain games, but it's 1080i resolution is disabled on PAL units. Again, it uses component cables for progressive scanning and also DVD playback. However, the PS2 has gained a bad reputation for having an inferior component output to its competitors. In my tests, I was surprised to find the RGB signal looked superior on the PS2. Here's my test.

If you're using component or RGB for the PS2, you need to go into the settings and toggle between RGB or YPbPr depending on the cable you're using. The only drawback to using RGB is that when playing a DVD on the PS2, the console will automatically switch over to YPbPr. Unless your SCART socket supports both RGB and YPbPr, the picture will come out green as a result of this. There are a couple workarounds. One is to get a SCART amplifier with one input and at least two SCART outputs. Use one output for RGB SCART and the other for component with a simple SCART to component adapter like this. This will also allow you to get 480p component out of the PS2 without swapping cables, if you need it.

Alternatively, Sony also released a few AV breakout adapters. These have RCA composite AV jacks, an S-video jack, and a multi-out port so you can still plug in SCART or component cables. These devices were obviously made with the GunCon in mind, but you can use it to split the PS2 signal without any quality loss. This will allow you to play games in RGB SCART while using S-video for DVD playback in colour.


Sorry for the lengthy essay, but like I said, you have a lot of options when it comes consoles from the early 2000s. Here's a quick summary of the best options.

Composite video.

• Nintendo Entertainment System (Original front loader only, Top Loader only supports RF unless modified)
• PC Engine/TurboGrafx-16/Duo
  
• Amstrad GX4000
  
• Pioneer LaserActive

S-video

• Nintendo 64
• 3DO
• Commodore Amiga CD32
• Sega Dreamcast (secondary output)
• PlayStation 2 (optional secondary output for DVD playback)

RGB SCART

• Sega Master System (Original only, the Master System II only supports RF unless modified)
• Sega Mega Drive (Model 1 and 2 only, Csync works best)
• Sega Saturn
  
• Super Nintendo (Csync if NTSC, Sync on Luma if PAL)
• Atari Jaguar
• Philips CD-i (only certain models support RGB)
• SNK Neo Geo
• SNK Neo Geo CD
  
• Sony PlayStation (Sync on Luma works best)
• Sony PlayStation 2 (Sync on Luma works best)
• Nintendo GameCube (PAL only)

YPbPr Component or HDMI adapter

• Microsoft Xbox
• Sony PlayStation 2 (optional secondary output with SCART splitter)
• Sony PlayStation 3 (simplest way of bypassing copy protection, otherwise use HDMI)
  
• Sony PlayStation Portable (2000, 3000 and Go models only. Supports LKV-8000 HDMI adapter)
  
• Nintendo Wii (supports Wii2HDMI or LKV-6000 mini HDMI adapters)

VGA

• Sega Dreamcast (with secondary S-video output)
• Apple Pippin

Hope that helps.

 

You my friend are an absolute wealth of retro knowledge and that post will come in very handy indeed.

I just looked into rgb modding my master system 2 so thats next on the cards as well.

 

No worries. I've been involved in Film and TV for many years, and generally have no hesitations getting better quallity video signals out of my AV equipment. Be it a camera, VCR, DVD player or games console. There's nothing that depresses me more than seeing tutorial videos on YouTube suggesting composite AV to HDMI adapters for things like the PS2 when you can get such better quality video out of it. Most consoles of the 90s and even 2000s came bundled with composite cables; HDMI and component cables weren't in high depend until more recent years; and SCART wasn't well known outside Europe and the UK. Even in Australia, SCART wasn't very common. So naturally, the internet is alive with tutorial videos explaining how to record retro consoles with composite, as though it were the only way to do so.

I'll give you another tip. Here are the upscalers I personally use.

You already saw the SCART to HDMI. This will handle all your composite and RGB consoles, and strip the copy protection on your HDMI PlayStation consoles.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/291983415920

For S-video to HDMI, I use this box. Like the SCART box I recommended above, it also has a HDMI 1.3 input. So it will also strip HDMI copy protection.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/151102566210

For component to HDMI, I use this box. This one also has composite and S-video inputs, but don't think you can just plug your N64 or NES into it. It has the worst handling of 288p I've ever seen - full of darkened interlace lines and catastrophic latency. Even PS1 games played on the PS2 through component doesn't work. Your best bet is to use it for 576i component content, like the Xbox (unless you're using a mod-chipped or soft modded Xbox, then you can get 720p or 1080i through component without an upscaler).
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/321293868274

For VGA to HDMI, I use this one. It can only output at 60Hz, but not really an issue since the Dreamcast only outputs at 60Hz in VGA mode. Interestingly, this company also has some AV/S-video upscalers. I haven't used them myself but the results I've seen on Youtube look pleasing.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/252765309566

Alternatively, if you want to save on space, there are also VGA/component to HDMI upscalers that will allow you to toggle between VGA and Component. Just remember these don't support 240p or 288p through component.
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/282095140754