Best picture quality on PAL Snes?

Hi there!

I was wondering, how you get the best picture quality on a PAL Super Nintendo?
As far as I understand, the PAL Snes can output rgb without having to mod it?
Will this cable be all I need for obtaining perfect rgb, or will I need to mod something or buy something else?
https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk...ndo-pal-rgb-av-scart-cable-lead-cord-for-sale
Do I need composite, or Luma sync? Can someone explain me what the two are ?

Thank you guys!

- Madsmaten

 

That cable will work fine but only use it on a PAL SNES. Get the Luma as sync version.

Luma as sync will give you a better picture than composite as sync but there is another way to get the best quality. An NTSC SNES/SFC system outputs C-Sync, which is the best sync signal for RGBS. PAL consoles don't output C-Sync and instead put 12V on that pin. C-Sync is still present on the console so with a custom cable and a mod to the console, you can get C-Sync and a razor sharp image. I'm having trouble finding info on this but from what I've heard, it is simply connecting C-Sync from the video chip to pin 3 of the multi-out. Cut the trace leading to pin 3 first or else you will damage your TV/upscaler.

Getting perfect RGBS on the SNES requires some mods. If you have a mini SNES, just reconnect the RGB and C-Sync lines to the multi-out as they have the best RGBS output of the SNES systems. If you have an older model SNES, you will need to bypass the on-board RGB amp to get better quality. This guide is for a 1CHIP system but should work on non-1CHIP systems if you can figure out which pins your motherboard revision needs. So far, nobody has looked into this for other motherboard revisions.

If you do not want to modify the console, use that cable and choose Luma as sync. If you really want the best quality, get an American SNES mini and mod it for RGB and C-Sync. You can then install SuperCIC and a 50/60Hz switch for PAL games.

 

Thank you for a well-written response!
I managed to install a Supercic in the machine last week, and now I am going for the picture quality.
I won't mind modding the console for RGB, however I am not quite sure, I understand how to ? (Sorry).
Will the difference be noticeable between Luma vs C-sync ?

 

You're welcome. The system already outputs RGBS, it's just that RGB on a PAL SNES isn't as good as an NTSC system without modding it. That cable you linked should work fine though and improve the picture quality as long as you use Luma as sync.

If your SNES isn't a 1-CHIP system, don't do that RGB bypass mod I linked. Nobody has tested it on anything other than a 1-CHIP system yet and nobody seems to have the required install instructions for it on non 1-CHIP consoles.

The jump from Luma to C-Sync should be noticeably better, but not by much. You can also use a sync stripper to get C-Sync out of Composite video but it might look better when using C-Sync from the original source.

I use a NTSC SNES RGB SCART cable wired for sync on composite video and a sync stripper for my SNES. It does look much better than using composite video as sync. The image is sharper and looks cleaner.

 

Luma vs composite sync shouldnt effect picture quality (see below for exceptions, but it shouldnt be the case). Its just a sync signal. The TV pretty much does what a sync stripper does internally after all.

The Csync from an N64 was an issue on samsung tv's however. But I suspect that was due to people not conditioning the csync signal correctly and the TV being unforgiving.

 

How do I use Luma sync? How can I know that I am using Luma, and not composite?
I am not quite sure I understand, what it is that I should mod on the SNES?
It outputs rgb, but not as good rgb as a NTSC Snes because of "missing" c-sync?
But the PAL Snes can be modded, so it supports c-sync, but the NTSC is still better?
I am really sorry, but I don't quite understand :/

 

Sorry for sounding confusing. I'll clear it up.

You don't need to mod anything right now. The cable you linked earlier will work fine. Just choose Luma for the sync option when ordering from their site.

The RGB output difference isn't because of C-Sync. Nintendo, for some unknown reason, changed the entire SNES video circuitry for the PAL SNES and because of this, RGB on a PAL SNES doesn't look as good as an NTSC system.

The PAL SNES can be modded to output C-Sync and it will only make it look sharper and cleaner. The RGB quality will still not be as good as an NTSC system due to the design changes but will look much sharper and cleaner than the standard PAL SNES RGB SCART cable with Composite Video as Sync or Luma as Sync.

Then again, I don't own a PAL SNES so I couldn't do a comparison for you. Can someone who has both systems and high quality RGB SCART/JP-21 cables for both do a comparison video for us? To make it completely fair, could this person use sync on Luma cables for both systems?

 

Thank you!
Now I understand!
That's really weird that they changed it upon the europe release.
Do you think it would be worth the money, upgrading it to a rgb pal Snes?

 

Yes it would be worth going to RGB. An RGB cable will be the only way to get color in 60Hz mode without a complicated(?) mod to the console. No need to do that mod if you aren't going to use Composite video or S-Video.

 

Thank you very much !
You have been a great help!
Guess there is nothing left for me to do, but order that cable and look forward to some decent RGB picture
Funny how I, after playing SNES all these years, never used that option until now.

 

You're quite welcome. Glad I was able to help! I never even knew the SNES could do anything better than S-Video up until 2012 or 2013. I've been playing the SNES since the early 2000s. Most of our TVs in the USA don't have SCART and the ones that did could only do Composite video and stereo audio over SCART.

 

Well, at least you had 60Hz
I remember playing Snes with the RF-cable, oooohhh the horrors.

 

Lol 60Hz has it's advantages but you guys have the better color format. PAL color fixed the problems NTSC color has. RF is how I used to experience it before buying my SNES.

 

Well, NTSC have it fair share of qualitys as well.
If I remember correctly, some games was simply never released in PAL format.
And wouldn't Japanese games play on a American SNES as well? If the plastic tab in the cartridge slot is removed.
It ain't easy to say which one is the best, luckily however in this time and age we are (almost) able to get the best of both worlds

 

Sadly, there are games that weren't made to display at PAL50 properly and are slower and not fullscreen because of this.

Yep on that SFC thing, Super Famicom games work in an American SNES if you cut those annoying tabs. American games also work in a Super Famicom but they don't fit due to their size. My only SNES games are an American Super Game Boy and Mario No Super Picross (Mario's Super Picross) for the Super Famicom. You can get that game on the PAL Wii Virtual Console if you are interested.

Thanks to SuperCIC and the 50/60Hz mods, we can get the best of both worlds! Thank goodness for mods.

 

So basically you are talking about something you dont actually know about....

While I appreciate you are keen, you often wade into things you have little/no experience with.

The PAL snes doesnt have csync because the pin was needed for 12v. Also because it shouldnt make any difference which sync signal you are using - assuming the signal is correctly conditioned/terminated etc. Point and case - csync on a N64 with a samsung TV has a criss cross pattern on it. Switch to luma is its wonderful which by your logic isnt possible. This is likely to the csync levels being incorrect and the samsung not being forgiving.

And as to why the 12v was needed - its a switching signal for scart.

 

Just a safety question, I should order that cable with Luma sync right?

 

Luma sync should be fine. I am not saying not to use Luma, just its not the huge deal its being made out to be. TV has a circuit that basically does what a sync stripper does, so saying using a sync stripper (on a TV at least, some PVM's need it stripped) wouldnt make any quality difference, assuming the signal is correct (vpp, termination, etc).

 

Thank you!
I will let you know in here, if there is any problems.

 

I have a PAL 1-chip system - can the RGB output from this also be improved with a mod or is it already perfect?