Broken megadrive carts with no visible damage

So once in a blue moon i stumble uppon non working sega carts

I have had many sega game carts but in almost 5 years of collecting I've come across 3 non working ones, If i would put the effort in also the cheap games I'm pretty sure i would have come across allot more

I have this with

toki going ape spit
michael jackson's moon walker
golden axe II

It's not a super big deal came in big lots and not super valuable games in general but I'm pretty curious what the caus can be.

With this golden axe II one for example I cannot see any flaw

I have read that extreme heat could be a cause or if one soaks it in soda, than again for the last one I'm pretty sure the lable should be long gone.

Does anyone know what the cause is or do sega carts fail at some point in time like the 3 mentioned above.

I can't seem to find any damage, also if it happens with a pretty awesome game it would be quite a shame.

I'm pretty interested if others have experienced it, I have had a close call with a turtles hyperstone heist but after some really good cleaning I got it to work, than again it was a heavily used ex rental so that one could be obvious.

 

Cold solder joints are usually the 1st culprit. If its bad I've found the pads completely lifted off the board and separated from the trace (at the very worst only found 2 games like this; Mortal Kombat 3 and Dragon a Bruce Lee story). Try a full re-flow of the joints and test continuity from the top side of the ROM pins to the cart connector.

If any scratches on the board inspect them too. Also not sure if the capacitor on the board may need a switch, but doesn't hurt to try.

 

I would also check the vias. Fixed a friends Grind Stomer once where this was the issue.

 

Also dead rom chip. Could pull it out and verify with a universal programmer

 

What's your definition of non-working? Do you get any form of picture? Do you get sound? Have you tried it in another system?

Non-working carts for any system are pretty common. Contacts become dirty, joints break, ROMs go bad. Just like any electronic device, really.

 

No signs of life at all, no sound or picture absolutely nothing wich is my description of a game being dead.

System plays all games fine even another copy of golden axe II so I highly doubt that would be the issue. Could test it on one of my other consoles but I highly doubt this would be the solution since other games with this issue did not work on other systems either

I've had some with signs of life wich were non functional but those I got working again.

Fortunately it seems like a very rare thing, I have only seen it with games from others and not from games that were working at first and turned bad after some time, the games that I have so far have not broken down yet at least the notable ones that I use from time to time. Still though if many would see their good games breaking down it could be an issue in the future unless the cause is that people of the past did something to the carts that would break the boards etc.

That being said I am very interested if anyone would know the cause why roms etc go bad when their is no physical visible damage.

Could also excellent condition games break after some period of time for no solid reason even when barely used at all? I'm very interested in the opinions of people here on the forums.

 

See my previous response. They are electronic devices with a finite lifespan.

Yes, ANYTHING electronic could stop working. Your TV. Your toaster. Your microwave. Your remote control. They all die.

 

I already know that everything breaks down at some point but I was hoping that carts were a bit more reliable and at the very least would break down before a life time.

However considering that there are some carts with no visible damage being broken I really wonder when the majority would break down at some point 5- 20 years ? I mean with disc there are solid reasons why they break down overtime and how you could slow that down but the carts wich should be more reliable have no solid reason of breaking down at all.

Where the carts vaulty for breaking down allot earlier than other carts or is it a sign that more carts will fall over the upcoming years since it is just meant to be.

Especially the last thing I would love to hear opinions about, in my personal opinion I guess the carts had some vaults during the production years for breaking down compared to the other games wich are still working since it is a pretty rare thing.

 

Carts are made of electronic components. Electronic components and the materials they are made of, age - just like CDs.

Your lack of understanding doesnt equal "theres no solid reason why a cart should break down".

Go do some googling around arcade pcb repair, you will find IC's die, a lot.

 

I do know that with arcade machines repairing will be a pretty solid time invested part of the hobby defintely not for everyone.

That being said I just want to know if anyone else has come across the same issues or maybe good games breaking down after some time. With snes and sega carts it appears way less than with arcade machines wich have many things that might break down over the years with nice condition stuff that is Obviously if your going downwards it will apear more and more. Besides if it really was that common that pcb's etc would die for these console carts in the same ratio as arcade machines there would be far more people complaining about it and there would be allot of threads with info but It's not it is not common with console carts except for dirty carts that is. Arcade pcb repair is whole other ball park since repairing is pretty much the main thing there even though carts consist of some simular components but far less stuff to go wrong with it.

I'm not complaining it's a very rare thing so in the case of game cardridges at least the ones in nice shape wich is why i ask this question if others have come across these things and if one could speculate if it would become a common thing over the years even with games that were to work. Let's just say an experation date when they would need to be repaired like save old save batteries in pokemon games wich at least in the gameboy color versions in the current era are all dead.

if it really was that common why do so few people complain about it if it happens, I have come across quite the amount of sega games over the years I'm a big collector game player and only very few were broken only 3 wich came from others when i tested them out when getting them in. if it was as common as arcade pcb repair the ratio of broken sega carts should be insanely high and many people would complain. wich is why maybe someone would suggest manufacturing faults etc since otherwise it should be more common if it is the experation date for these carts. I understand that stuff break down at some point but I'm curious.

 

The only dead but good looking carts I usually see are Pokémon carts with bat mbc3 chips

 

Yes, I've had dead carts. Many people here have had dead rom chips.

Dead rom chip in a cart is no different to a dead rom chip in an arcade board. The reason games fail less is just because arcade boards have more things to go wrong and therefore fail more often. But their roms and eproms are often a source of the issue.

Ive had mvs carts with bad roms too, its all the same.

It just seems like you dont want to listen that this happens and make up your own reasoning. Rather than listen to a person who repairs things for a living and repairs gaming stuff as a hobby and side business.

Also remember, if the rom has corruption in sprite areas etc, the game will probably still play ok, just have corrupt graphics you may not even notice.

 

Well as far as arcade machines go and the places were people find fresh stock so to say, since they are so big and bulky in people's way usually when they are not being used anymore the storage conditions were far from ideal, stored in cold sheds etc since it is pretty big, so the elements have had far more effect on the components aside from the many things that could go wrong with them if the storage conditions were great, The inside is pretty fragile with bad storage conditions corrotion etc wich in my opinion could be a big reason why arcade pcb repair is a very big thing. i'm pretty sure it would be less if people kept them in a proper place still far more than console carts but way less problems than right now.

Game carts however are allot smaller and could be stored in the house withouth to much of a hassle so with better conditions.

Also I am aware of the repair options and what things could be the issue in my case I'm also not saying that your explanations are wrong. I'm just asking the reasons how it could happen I'm just curious. I'm not denying what is broken just questioning how it breaks down over time and what could speed up the process.

If you can fix things you might also have knowledge what might speed up the process or can cause things to break down over time with a higher % rate. Fixing things is one thing but knowing the cause could also be interesting wich is why I made this thread.

 

When I am using arcade PCB repair as an example, I am specifically talking about when a rom fails. Not the PCB itself or anything else on the board or corrosion or anything else.

You still get more rom failures on an arcade PCB because there are more of them on a PCB vs a cart. If an arcade pcb has 10 roms (often more) it has 10x chances of a faulty rom being an issue. Asking why carts dont fail as much as arcade pcbs (with rom failures) isnt taking this into account.

Nothing is going to speed up or slow down the issue. Enjoy your stuff, fix it when it breaks.

Seeing as you want some sort of reason:

Bit rot (eproms, flash, OTP chips that look like maskroms).
Manufacturing design choices (look at all the fujitsu logic chips dying)

just a couple from top of my head

 

I had once a Sonic 1 cart that was looking like new. Like Bad_Ad84 said, it's bit rot and I have read somewhere that some megadrive games verify the checksum before starting.

 

+1 for dead ROM chips. Not that long ago I got a copy of Quackshot for the Mega Drive, which even after all the cleaning in the world only gave a black screen.
Desoldered and dumped the chip, and sure enough, it was faulty and had bad blocks of data.

 

Bit rot, at some point everything does fail

Seems like an exparation date to me, bit rot can't be repaired since the data is lost at least that's my guess unless you would put a new rom inside or something.

well at some point the majority of the carts should die of bit rot even the good ones wich are used and stored properly. so that basicly means that after some time repairs are not possible anymore if data gets lost? I mean allot of parts can be replaced but if data is gone the game is gone. Not everything can be repaired or am I wrong.

And this is a scenario when good games wich used to be good turn bad but data is lost since it fails at some point.

 

burn new eprom, fit into cart, game works.

But what you describe is exactly why people like the mame team want to dump everything.

 

true but it seems that the majority of all original games the roms have already been dumped online

I mean for everdrive carts etc you can pretty much get every game out there for the main systems even most of the more fun japanese exclusives and allot of them with english patches when it is needed.

The most things that people are still after for dumping are prototypes of unreleased games since at least for the older systems there is not much that has not been dumped yet, except for some later consoles like the sega saturn .

 

But what you are saying now doesnt relate to the question you asked and I answered.

Yes, they are possible. Because people like the mame team have tried to dump everything. To stop data getting lost to failing chips.

What you said about all games already being dumped is basically saying that yes, all the games can be repaired.

The majority of prototypes have been dumped by their owners for the same reasoning.