Connecting RGB systems without using SCART

While using a SCART to BNC adapter and SCART cables would be convenient, using a DIN/miniDIN/Multi-Out/etc. to BNC breakout cables would be better. This would reduce the chance of crosstalk and, when using high quality BNC cables, will make sure the signal isn't distorted by the outside world. Remember that SCART tends to have anywhere from 3-21 wires in a single cable. Keeping each signal wire in its own cable would greatly reduce the chance of any artifacts and interference. Yes, I know you can buy properly shielded SCART cables and even some with individually shielded wires, but they are expensive and the OP wants to remove the SCART connector from the equation completely.

 

Man, I was just trying to (re-)expose you a simpler solution than making making 26 custom cables or hacking 26 consoles (with all issue this is potentially adding problems like sync or correcting the RGB signal with capacitors/résistances from each plateform, especially if you want to plug it to a VGA switch box which adding more in the equation.
Even if this is totaly doable, it's time consuming, not really cheaper and with a good potential of problems here and there for no substancial gain (not better connectivity, no less cable, no better quality).
On your first post you ask "Why I cannot skip SCART for RGB signals". Skipping SCART, ok, but for what purpose? Plug it into your PVM monitor with BNC? Then if just for that, you have an easy, convenient alternative solution. That's all.
Anyway, good luck with your mod.

 

Why did you even make this thread then?

 

To find out if others have found alternative ways to connect RGB consoles to a PVM. The fact that I can make any cable or mod any console is irrelevant really, I came here to learn what others are doing and if anyone can share what they found out when they tried other methods.

 

What other method is their besides a custom cable? The cleanest method is to source original connectors for consoles and mod the other end for rca/bnc ? This shouldn't be a problem since you can make oem factory cables. Good luck with your project

 

Precisely, I want to know what others have done, how and what results where obtained.
I am finding strange that somebody who made his own 10 input scart switch box can't understand about this much simpler scenario that I am inquiring about for the sake of learning so I can do a better job with my project.
is like I am thirsty and I asked what else is there besides water to quench my thirst, I like to try other things and you come and tell me to drink water, see how that sounds?
Instead you could have said something along the lines: "When I tried to connect my consoles to my PVM, I ended up having to use scart because when I tried RCA cables, depending on what cable I used, I noticed color loss, so to be sure I measure it with my scope I found these results A-B-C, so I concluded that unless you use this method you will experience problems."

 

I might know what you're after. Start by choosing a compact connector (like a DIN) with enough pins to carry any signal a console may reasonably need for 15khz RGB.
That way you won't run into problems on small / portable systems lacking room to make individual plugs look good (PSone or Nomad for example).

 

I second this. A 9 pin miniDIN would have enough pins for Red, Green, Blue, H-Sync*, V-Sync*, C-Sync, Left Audio, Right audio, and a ground pin. You might be able to get away with an 8 pin DIN if you add a switch to select whether the H-Sync pin outputs H-Sync or C-Sync. Only use it on systems with plugs that aren't easy to get a hold of like the Dreamcast. The Nintendo Multi-Out is easy to get a hold of and so is the PlayStation Multi-Out.

The PlayStation 1 and 2 may need the Composite video line replaced with C-Sync for your PVM. A sync stripper is another option too but it might be easier to just replace Composite video with C-Sync. If you want H-Sync and V-Sync on a PS1/2 and use the PS AV out, you would need to cut the Y/C traces for S-Video and replace them with H-Sync and V-Sync. Combine that with Composite video and you get an RGB-only PS1. If you need Composite video or S-Video after doing this mod, you can build a RGB to Composite Video and S-Video converter for cheap.

Nintendo consoles don't have access to H-Sync and V-Sync. For the N64 you need to use a custom DAC that takes the digital signals from the N64 and converts them to analog RGBHV. OzOnE was working on that before he swapped to HDMI. His custom everything to HDMI scaler will have an RGBHV output should you need it. For the GC it's the same thing but much easier. You use the official GC Component cable or GCVideo lite in RGB mode to get RGBHV.


*H-Sync and V-Sync isn't available on all consoles so only hook up those pins when it is supported or can be modded to support it (via a new DAC).

 

I have to make a hard choice and pick what system to mod and what to leave on S-video, the ones that natively support RGB I will just get the cables for them, however I will be looking into removing the SCART end and see what happens from there, I am probably going to test 1st with a Genesis and got from there one at a time, my PVM has a Sync input and normally you can connect the composite cable and use that for sync, but every console is different so I will have to work on this case by case scenario.

 

I've been reading through tons of posts on this site looking for the same answer you are Franchy. I recently got a PVM and I also have a large number of systems I want to hook up to it. Tons of great info on this site so thanks for anyone that posted something about RGB cables, I probably read it. Also went through a lot of shmups.system11.org.

The reason I want to make cables is because buying everything I need to work would be over $500 in just cables and switchers. That's if I go the scart route. There is so much info online, I feel like I would be able to make my own cables plus do them at my own pace. If I bought cables, I'd probably do a lump sum so I saved on shipping.

So this might be a dumb question, is there any reason you couldn't make your own cable with the native console plug, out to RGB BNC so it can go right into a PVM or switch? Also I believe OP asked but I don't think it was answered. On this page (http://mirrors.arcadecontrols.com/eviltim/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm) it shows where the resistors got when going to scart. Does this still apply if you were going to make RGB cables this way?

The closest post I've found of a setup I imagine is this http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=43992

 

Yes you can. I've already mentioned in this thread that you can make RGB BNC cables for these consoles. The problem arises when you go to get a BNC switchbox. The only ones we can find online are expensive and designed for other applications like composite video cameras. Your best bet is to use a manual Component switchbox and use RCA cables coming from the console instead of BNC. You could then send the switchbox's outputs to the PVM via an RCA to BNC cable.

Another issue is that RCA connectors don't have enough room in them to fit capacitors so you would have to make a small inline box that has the right components on the RGB lines and the C-Sync line or Composite Video line for consoles that need caps. Resistors might fit if you keep the legs short. You could always install the components in the console but then you can't use cables that have these components anymore.

 

O ok, I remember reading your post but I was thinking you were referring using them in a different way, my bad. Doing it with RCA switch boxes would let me use what I have already. If I went the BNC way, I was thinking about the Extron switchers, they seemed to not go for a ton, there is a 16 switcher for $65 on ebay right now but they are massive in size. They seemed to run cheaper than the scart switches I've seen too.

Thanks for the extra info. This might be me making a dumb assumption but should I be able to cut up any stock console cable to what I need? I know I could go right from the connector but if I could just cut and already have wires to work with would save some time. I wasn't sure if a normal composite cable on say a SNES has missing wires for what it doesn't use vs one that is going to scart or s-video.

I rather not mod my systems if possible. I know some need to in order for RGB but for those systems I plan on getting a 2nd system. Most of the systems I have I got growing up and rather not harm them. I really just want my systems to look as great as they can. I don't mind dumping money all the premade stuff but I figured there is enough info out there to make my own without too much trouble and save a little bit of cost in the process.

 

It's ok. I had no idea they were that much. The switchboxes I saw for BNC were much more than that.

You're welcome. Some of the connectors have the extra pins but they aren't wired up. They also aren't designed to be open so you could break them trying to open them. To check to see if they have the pins, just look at the plug. If it has all XX pins intact then it can be modded. For the SNES and PS1/2/3, you can get a new plug from Helder in the marketplace. Just make sure you have the correct components in the cables. A box may be necessary for things like the SNES and Genesis/MD to hold those components. RadioShack sells small boxes that are perfect for this if you need them.

I know how you feel about not modding some stuff. I have a Atari 7800, PS2, Xbox 360, and Wii from my childhood that I would never take a screwdriver to. Everything else is fair game though lol. Well, except for current gen stuff. Those stay unmodded until I have a reason for it and it's discontinued completely. I'm probably gonna buy a new PS2 and 7800 and mod those instead. Plan on putting in an HDMI mod in the PS2 (taps the digital video signals directly and doesn't use analog) along with a modchip for bypassing region checks and S-Video or RGB (if possible) in the 7800.

 

Which systems are you looking to hook up? I have made several custom cables and managed to fit some of the resistor and capacitors inside the game side multiout. That was for things like the SNES AV multiout and the Genesis model 1 multiout, both of which are fairly large relatively speaking to something like the Genesis model 2 mini-din.

 

mechanical VGA switcher...

That's what I'm looking at doing. SCART plugs are silly big...

 

Awesome, thanks for the tips, most of the stuff I have is composite so I'd assume if anything is missing pins, it's the cables I have. I might just go ahead and get some of those plugs from Helder, probably save me some time and cables. Nice on the future mods, I'm holding off on thinking what I want to do for the higher resolution systems like the ps2.

My goal is to have my SNES, Sega Master System, Genesis/Sega CD/32X, Saturn, Neo Geo CD, Jaguar, Dreamcast, Gamecube, Playstation, NES, N64, Atari 2600, and 3DO. I know from the NES on in that list need to be modded for RGB so those will be done last. I know some will do svideo so they will probably be near the end also. As of now I've only played my Neo Geo CD on my pvm but wow was it nice even with svideo.

What system do you think it would be easiest to start with making a cable for? Also what are the chances of messing up the system or TV if I do something wrong in the cable?

 

Since you are using a PVM, I highly doubt it will do anything except look weird.

Don't use RGBS on the Dreamcast. Use VGA instead. That way you get 480p+ and a better picture. The HDMI mod I mentioned earlier for the PS2 will also work in the Dreamcast. For the DC games that don't work in VGA mode, swapping the system to 15KHz RGB mode (send pin 7 on the AV port to ground) will still provide H-Sync and V-Sync so you can still use VGA but in 15KHz mode. For games that don't support RGB at all, use S-Video or the HDMI mod.

The GameCube will need the GCVideo lite mod board to do RGB or a modified component cable. Since the GameCube is a Enhanced Definition-capable console, might as well use the HDMI version of GCVideo (GCVideo DVI). Should you go the GCVideo lite route, you can get 31KHz 480p from RGB, just like component. The board has H-Sync, V-Sync, and C-Sync on it so just tap C-Sync for RGBS and H-Sync and V-Sync for VGA (RGBHV). I should also add building GCVideo lite yourself should cost less than $60. That's about $150 cheaper than the official component cable and you get the exact same quality. HDMI mod is $66 and provides a better image.

The 2600 will need Tim Worthington's 2600RGB board.

The N64 depends on your revision. NUS-CPU-05 and later need Tim's N64RGB board. Earlier models just need an amp and RGB wired up. HDMI mod works in this too.

The Jaguar outputs RGB on the card edge on the back. It also has H-Sync and V-Sync for 15KHz VGA and I recommend that over RGBS.

SNES depends on the region. NTSC consoles are easier to make cables for as they just need 220uf caps on R, G, and B. Sync can either be Composite Video, Luma (Y in S-Video), or C-Sync. I recommend using C-Sync but you may not notice a difference between it and composite video as sync if your PVM has a sync stripper built-in. PAL consoles lack C-Sync. They also need 75 ohm resistors to ground on R, G, B, and the composite video line or Luma line. Again, if your PVM doesn't have a sync stripper, use Luma or a sync stripper on composite video.

SMS and Genesis/32X all use the same components. The only difference is the plugs. SMS and Model 1 Genny use an 8 pin DIN connector with mono audio only. This means you have to split the audio line into two plugs for dual mono. Genesis model 1 outputs stereo via the headphone jack so just get sound from there using a 3.5mm to RCA Y cable and a RCA to BNC adapter. 32X and Model 2s use a 9 pin miniDIN, which supplies stereo audio. Just wire it up with the same components as a model 1. You could even make the cable have both plugs if you want to. They need 75 ohm resistors followed by 220uf caps on the RGB lines. C-Sync will need a 220uf cap and a 75 ohm resistor.

Saturn is different depending on region. NTSC consoles have C-Sync and PAL consoles do not, same as the SNES. This would be the easiest to wire up as it requires no extra components (at least for NTSC consoles). However, it does use the rare 10 pin miniDIN. Tim sells it in his shop for cheap and there are some sellers on eBay who sell it for cheap. Sync can be tapped from C-Sync (NTSC only), Luma, or composite video.

I do believe the NGCD requires a mod but I might be wrong.

NES needs Tim's famous NESRGB board. There is also an HDMI mod by Kevtris called the Hi Def NES (NESHD) if you are interested.

PS1 just needs 220uf caps on the RGB lines and sync can be tapped from composite video or Luma. If you want C-Sync, you can mod the console to output it or use a sync stripper. You can either wire it to an RCA jack mounted on the console or do what I did and replace the composite video line on the multi out with it. You will need a 220uf cap and a 75 ohm resistor on C-Sync, which I recommend doing inside the console. Should you need composite video again and you do the multi out mod, you can get Composite video by using a simple Y/C combining circuit on S-Video or encode it from RGB. The system also has access to H-Sync and V-Sync so you can mod it for 15KHz VGA if you want to.

Last but not least, I have no idea about the 3DO. I know it needs a mod but I'm not sure about how to do it or if all models support it.

 

Many thanks for the ridiculously detailed post. I had links that had some of this but not all in one place or as detailed. This should be a interesting journey for me but the outcome should be awesome. I think I will probably get a another tv for the stuff like the DC and GC that can do 480p once I get to those systems.

This is the 3DO mod I found, http://www.otakus-store.net/en/modd...-full-kit.html#/3do_version-3do_jap_ppu_vp536

 

There are many members here with this mod done. You can actually find the part/schematics to the project somewhere online.

 

You're very welcome. I'm like a sponge so I just absorb info as I read it and gives it to someone who needs it lol. I could have gone farther into detail but I wanted to keep the post short as possible... looks like that didn't happen lol. I updated the post for the PS1 and Saturn sections. It just adds a little bit more words and mentions the VGA mod and the C-Sync mod for the PS1.

When using 15KHz VGA, you need a monitor/upscaler that supports it. Most VGA monitors/upscalers don't support 240p and 480i at 15KHz over VGA. PVMs with RGB inputs do though. I think those RGB/CGA/EGA to VGA converter boards on eBay and such work with a 15KHz VGA input also.