EGM Feb '97 Lockheed Real3D Saturn upgrade for VF3 and standalone console Pluto

Erick Dyke btw, mentioned in the above interview, has recently died. He was one of the co-founders of N-space

 

That's a shame. I'll always respect the work he has done, in both the field of 3D graphics, and games.

 

x

 

clockwork night surely was made for the first "incarnation" (sounds so death metal haha) of the sega saturn, plus panzer dragoon was also a 32X game.

Maybe i could think of more...

 

I've read conflicting stories on the origins of Panzer Dragoon and Clockwork Knight. Some claim these started off their lives as 32X projects, while others seem to confuse screenshots from the CES '94 prototypes as being early Saturn code - at this point those two games (and Victory Goal) were still just technical demonstrations running on Silicon Graphics workstations. Of course, it's also been suggested all three of these titles were the result of Sega founding three new CS teams with the intention of creating launch titles for its then-latest console, along with a US counterpart (presumably Sega Away Team, who developed BUG!). Now, does that mean Teams Andromeda, Ara and Aquila were originally meant for the Saturn or 32X? Just what consituted Sega's newest platform of the time? Sonic Xtreme was first made for the 32X, so maybe Sega was putting all of its proverbial eggs into that basket for a while? Either way, I'm sure there are plenty of people here who might be able to provide a more definitive answer...

P.S. Did the proposed MegaDrive/32X conversion of Daytona USA come after the Saturn edition, or was this always intended for the "proper" console first?

 

x

 

great info Duid II, thanks for provide it.

You said.

"I've seen code of Panzer Dragoon dating back to mid 94, for the Saturn."

Can you bring more light on that? Seems interesting men. I would appreciate that very much.

 

I've also heard about the claim that Virtua Racing would have been possible on MegaDrive without the Sega Virtua Processor chip, and while its frame rate isn't up to much Hard Drivin' proves basic 3D wasn't entirely outside the console's reach. As for the suggestion that Daytona USA was lined up as a possible second showcase of the SVP, it was reported back in the day and I've no reason to doubt various sources that covered this story. Of course, that doesn't mean I'm convinced Daytona would have been possible on the MegaDrive. In fact, a port of Virtua Fighter or one of the other two Model 1 games might have suited the console better. Unlikely, but less likely to have disappointed had it happened.

Finally, in addition to Scorcher and A+M+O+K, did you know Scavenger was preparing a third Saturn game based on the earlier 32X footage? Sadly, neither the intended Saturn or PC versions of Into The Shadows were completed by development team Triton, although a tech demo of the latter did get out (there's copy to download online - if you know where to look). For a game produced before such impressive titles as the Lobotomy's conversion of Quake, it was a fantastic piece of Saturn coding... or at least it would have been providing the edition for Sega's platform looked as good, that is! Considering the quality of Scavenger's programming houses, I'm sure it was equally comparable to the Saturn games it did publish. Then again, it took long enough to get Scorcher in particular up and running. I'm hardly surprised Scavenger went under, though at least most of their best talents continued at other companies.

 

x

 

Yeah, that's the one - I know it's not the Saturn version, but I recall there being a few screenshots printed years back so presumably Triton was planning to join its Scavenger stablemates on Sega's 32-bit console. As for the possibility of there being a Panzer Dragoon prototype from 1994 out there, I've never heard of this before. Again, it's not entirely unlikely, though back on the subject of that 32X tech demo I have to agree with your suggestion. As companies that rose from the Amiga demo scene, Lemon, Zyrinx and Triton wouldn't have made such a mistake as crediting the wrong people easily because they took a lot of pride in their work... and so they should, as theirs was easily some of the best programming of its time!

 

I ever believed that the real flaw in Saturn´s design is the lack of texture cache inside the VDP, with texture cache then the speed of the 3D rendering would have improved a lot because the number of cycles for texturing would have been reduced and with this more geometry at the screen.

All this could have been embedded in a single processor for a very low price back in 1998, this processor is nothing more than an overclocked graphical system from Saturn but adding things like a processor like Playstation GTE and texture cache.

 

I had fun working with Lockheed-Martin in Orlando for nearly a year (1995-1996) on a Playstation game, the companies first foray into a home console. They were still doing concurrent development on arcade hardware and games for Sega, but nothing for the home. Eventually the project terminated because they couldn't get their head around the business model, and decided to focus on their Sega coin op business and their Real3D graphic cards (which tanked, but then were bought up by Intel).

Good times, even the alligator and snapping turtles in the lake that was near the cafeteria.

 

Then, LOCKHEED MARTIN NEVER DID A SATURN ADD-ON??

That's BRUTAL NEWS men...can you confirm that?

 

Wasn´t the Saturn add-on a thing invented by a gaming magazine that were overhyped by the community?

I remember that at the beginning of 1996 myself reading a magazine that said because Saturn achieved its peak (Sony propaganda) the console could need and add-on for future games and in special Virtua Fighter 3.

 

Yu Suzuki maintained that Virtua Fighter 3 - and the Shenmue prototype, for that matter - did not require any kind of Saturn upgrade, though it was noted AM2 had received a working prototype of such hardware for evaluation purposes. Many of the "details" surrounding the whole Eclipse project came from hype and speculation printed in a US-based magazine that may have filtered through a leak at Sega of America, but ultimately it seems Lockheed was not involved. There's no reason to assume some type of cartridge accelerator didn't exist, yet at the same time it was probably using 3DFX technology instead of the previously mentioned Real3D alternative. If the reality of this situation has been lost through one rumour passed down as fact over the years, it's the claim VF3 was being discussed for the Saturn in early 1996. Suzuki himself officially confirmed that his team would be taking full responsibility for such a conversion at the same November '96 press conference where Fighters Megamix was also revealed, so why do people continue reading into previous articles that don't fit into the actual timeline of this game? Of course, he did also say there had been several months of research into the possibility of this game being something fans could realistically expect from their 32-bit system of choice. I've no doubt VF3 would have been a key late-era Saturn release (in 1998, that is... and certainly not 1996!), but don't you think it's about time more of us tried painting a clearer picture of its troubled development instead of relying on sources that provide more contradictions than actual facts?

 

I believe that all this comes with a confusion with the NV2 card and SegaPC games.

The first NV1 not only lacked geometry processing, it could only drar 50K polygons/sec and this wasn´t enough for a console that back in 1995 had games that ran 60K-100K polys per second in its top games, this is the reason Sega America needed a better card for the SegaPC platform.

Imagine this possible situation, Sega wants to make ports from Saturn to PC and they see that the first card from Nvidia isn´t strong enough and decide to make another one with Nvidia, this card is being developed by Sega America who sees that in middle of the 3D cards chaos they can take an huge advantage.

But 1996 came and superior 3D Processors appeared in the market making the NV2 obsolete, the press who aren´t informed about this upgrade from the never released NV1 to NV2 hears this and believe that the upgrade is for the Saturn, then the Eclipse a cartridge expansion rumor starts.

LM is another thing, people is insane when they believe that the R100 from LM could have been realeased in a gaming console back in the day, one thing that it had for its advantage was the T&L unit able to do 500K pol/sec, a complete GPU was something unthinkable back in 1995 and 1996 because the high costs from it, you only need to see that Dreamcast, released in 1998, didn´t have a graphics processor with a T&L unit.

 

I have a greek magazine that specifically states that Voodoo-type technology "is going to be used in the 3D accelerator chip". The 3D accelerator chip was even part of the Saturn's promotion here in Greece, with bold mentions found in ads in the pages of GamePro magazine.

 

Sega cheating their users...

Barcode, tell me, i don't recall correctly, but i'm trying to remember if you posted a scan from a Greek magazine that on it's backcover showed those adverts..

I'm certain??

thanks in advance.

 

You guys wanna see photos and the story of R3D/100?
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?t=52627

 

great great great!