Graphics Card Help (or let's rip on my shitty ass PC) Topic

Yo, AssemblerGames, I want a new graphics card and I'm a complete noob when it comes to upgrading my PC so I kinda help here.

I took a Windows Experience Index test which gave me a score a 2.9 out of 7.9 in the Graphics category. Basically what it meant was that "A computer with a base score of 3.0 can run Aero and many features of Windows 7 at a basic level. Some of the Windows 7 advanced features might not have all of their functionality available. For example, a computer with a base score of 3.0 can display the Windows 7 theme at a resolution of 1280 × 1024, but might struggle to run the theme on multiple monitors. Or, it can play digital TV content but might struggle to play high-definition television (HDTV) content." What I have now can't even fully run Aero, apparently. =/

From what I read is that while I have 2GB of RAM, it shares 639 MB for graphic processing. So if I'm right, everything in my PC will slow as it shares RAM, so to remedy this, a graphics card will be needed to handle the graphics on my PC. I've also learned that purchasing and utilizing a decent graphics card will also seriously improve video playback, recording, capturing, production, and rendering, which would be fuckin' awesome, especially for what I do. I always have to deal with the slowness of processing video and previewing whenever I put together images, text, and video pieces for my documentary or other projects, for example.

I've also read that basically if RAM is shared for video, it's likely that the graphics card is integrated, meaning it can't be upgraded. However, there seems to be a particular slot in the inside of my PC. Photos:


I also notice that there are certain cards that contain a HDMI slot, and/or a S-Video slot. Are those where you can insert those cables to record from or output to? Do those features matter in a graphics card? I was thinking that I could use the S-Video slot to plug in and record from old game consoles like Saturn or SNES. I've seen these ones go for what seems to be decent prices.

Considering the benefits I would get from (upgrading) a graphics card, I've decided to pursue buying one. But am I misguided here? Correct me if I am. If I can get anyone's suggestions and ideas on what graphics cards I should invest in, it would be welcome.

I am in a budget, so the most I'm willing to spend for is $50-$100 USD.

For reference, here are my PC specs:

And here's what graphics card I have, which happens to be "ATI RADEON XPRESS 1100 Series."

Visuals? No problem! Here's what me and another fine gentleman, djohe|AFK went over.


I understand that power is an issue so enjoy this photo of my Power Box:

 

A new GPU (graphics card) might help slightly with video playback/processing, but I think the CPU is really the main bottleneck. A Pentium 4 (even a new one) is far from ideal if you do a lot of video editing and/or processing. If I were you, instead of getting a new GPU I'd just save my money until I could get a new PC. PCs are pretty cheap these days, especially if you build it yourself. Building a PC is really not hard at all if you have any knowledge of electronics whatsoever and/or are able to follow instructions.

If you live in the US, newegg.com is a really good site for buying computer parts. You can search by price range, manufacturer, series, etc. Getting more memory might actually make more of a difference than a new graphics card, but it's hard to say.

With a few exceptions, most new GPUs do not capture video. Many GPUs have HDMI ports, but those are typically outputs, not inputs. They're for connecting your computer to an HDTV. I don't think many new GPUs have S-Video ports, but again, the ones that do are probably outputs. If you want to capture video, there are cards and boxes specifically for that. Newegg is good for those as well.

I'm sorry if I sound condescending. I'm just trying to help you the best I can.

 

Yeah, I was gonna post the same thing... Single-core CPUs don't cut it these days, a new GPU won't do you much good.

 

With your setup, you are better off investing in building a new PC/having someone build it for you or just flat out buying a new one.


CPU and GPU equally share a lot of the burdens when it comes to games and video processing.


However, you can get a new GPU (if your Power supply is sufficient of course)
And it will give you a performance boost, just not as much if it were in a new system/non bottlenecked system. (I used a Pentium 4 system on LGA775 for quite a few years with an Nvidia 8600GT that I installed a few years in that was heavily bottlenecked by my other components)

A good modern example of this is the custom PC I built my brother.
Initially it had an 8800GTS 640mb, which I later upgraded to a 450GTS 1GB .
Now because of my oversight in choosing a motherboard for his pc, it had a relatively low HyperTransport speed (It's an AMD system, so HT is basically the equivalent of FrontSideBus, or modernly QuickPathInterconnect on Intel systems) of 1000 mt/s. The Cpu (an AMD Athlon II X2) is rated for a max of twice that speed of 2000 mt/s, which slows down the speed in which the CPU can get all of it's communications to (commonly the Northbridge first and then to )all of the other components in the PC including the GPU.
You can guess what happens after. The components are being bottlenecked by the motherboard, thus keeping everything else from running at it's maximum potential.
In perspective, the 8800GTS 640Mb I took out from the system I temporarily put in my the PC I was building in early January this year because of money troubles (which is an LGA1366 X58 system). The 8800 GTS in my system was performing above the 450GTS 1GB in my brother's system because there was no bottlenecking.
And that's a big deal, the 450GTS is far and away , a much more powerful card than the 8800GTS, a GPU that is more than 2 generations behind and released nearly 5 years prior. (8 series, 9 series ,100 Series*same as 9/8 series*, 200 series, OEM 300 series *same as 200* and then the 400 series which was all new like the 200 series)


As for your other question,
Some older GPU's have what's called "VIVO" Ports, they look like S-video but usually have an attachable dongle/cord that you can use to output video, or capture video. Hence VideoInVideoOut.
Newer GPU's with an HDMI port are (in all cases that I know of) output only.
Another



Based on your power supply (Which is rated for 19Amps on the 12V rail)
And your resolution. A 300W PSU (especially an OEM one, which are usually not of the best quality) You'd be lucky to run an 8600GT like I did on an 300W PSU.

Luckily you can get this
http://www.amazon.com/Cooler-Master...WPLK/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1308654095&sr=8-1
for under 50$ ( A decent PSU too, used it in my brother's PC.)

and either this (if you are the only bidder)
http://cgi.ebay.com/XFX-Radeon-HD-4...584?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item45fb55e7f8

or

http://cgi.ebay.com/Evga-Nvidia-GTS250-512mb-/230637595280?pt=PCC_Video_TV_Cards&hash=item35b3126a90

Don't underestimate the price either, the 4850 is supposed to be a great card. Same with the GTS 250 (Which is a rebranded 9800GTX+, roughly equivalent/possibly better/worse than a 4850)
Both of these will handle most modern games at modest resolutions just fine. (I've heard some people say the 4850 can perform even well at 1080p on the 1gb version. Though other accounts of it i've seen, it performs poorly at 1080p with games like Bad Company 2, Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JBN5MNpYWlY

With all the new GPU's that have been on the rise the last 2 years, prices have either been stagnating on some lines , or dropping to rock bottom with others which is both an awesome thing, and a not so great thing(for being outdated, and being an older product that will show it's age sooner if you pay attention)

 

If you're serious about that power supply. PULL IT THE FUCK OUT. Bestec are notorious for being shit.

It's rated for 300w but It couldn't put that out on a good day.

It had a shit 5v standby circuit, caps would go bad after a while (They used the caps that were manufactured with the stolen & incomplete recipe (Google capacitor plague for more info) and it would jump from 5v to 12v and blow just about everything connected to the power supply.

I'd suggest getting a whole new pc in general if you can afford it. Atleast 4gb of ram and a dual core if you're editing video. I went from a 3ghz P4 to a slightly slower dual core and my rendering times decreased so fast.

For reference I'm using a Dual Core and 4gb of ram without a GPU for editing and it could take upto half an hour to render HD video (3-4mins of it) I bought a 5770 and it decreased so much.

 

God, I can't stand how big PC corporations put such terrible quality components in their PC's and upsell them so much when they obviously pay shit for the individual parts.

 

yeah you definitely don't want a crud PSU, it's pretty much the heart of keeping all your parts powered properly and not fried. I usually get my PSU slightly above what I expect to need power wise just to ensure I have some overage, using a 550 right now.

5770 is a nice card, been thinking about upgrading from my 8800GT to one of those. I really love Nvidia and was eyeing the gtx 460, but the 5770 / ATI cards drastically outperform nvidia in bitcoin mining, and if I can earn some free bitcoins a month with my graphics card, sounds good to me

 

I love the 5770. Such a surprising card I expected it to be pretty average but its so surprising. FPS on l4d2 Jumped from 10fps to 60 constant with defaults and I havent even upgrade my CPU (Dual core) or Ram (4gb).

I got it for £81.66 from overclockers.co.uk (my shop of choice) They pack fantastically and its always next day at a decent price After VAT and shipping (£10 for next day!) it came to £157.98 for both the 5770 AND a 600w OCZ StealthXStream2 (£39.99 very solid.).

 

new build go go go.
x4 amd 3ghz, 4gb ram, ati 5770 done sorted. ebuyer.com

 

I shop almost exclusively at newegg for my parts in the states, I'd probably go to a Fry's if we had one here tho

for you guys with big boy ATI cards, you might wanna check out bitcoin mining, I know I know, bitcoin etc etc, but it does legitimately work. Basically you just leave your GPU churning through hashes while youre just doing other stuff, you won't really notice anything until you try to game again when you should pause mining. Essentially youre generating free money

 

I would just rebuild rather than put more money into that box with what it has now.

If you're up for it, build yourself a new PC.

The motherboard won't be able to take new CPUs, the PCIexpress slot is most likely not 2.1 and that PSU will kill your motherboard eventually. You're better of building a new PC.

 

LOL don't you just love that! You thought you just needed a new GPU and turns out you need a whole new PC!

Yeah, it was bound to happen given its age. Like everyone has already pointed out the old Pentium 4 is very slow compared to modern CPU's even core for core. I mean there are modern single cores that will run circles around that old single core P4 but of course you get yourself a nice quad core and you'll be amazed with the new found speed!

Sounds like you don't want to play any modern PC games? I can tell you onboard video may not compete with a dedicated video card when it comes to 3D performance BUT onboard video has come a long way. Modern onboard video can easily handle multiple monitor output, HDMI and 1080p video be it from a bluray movie or even flash video on YouTube. It's really not THAT demanding for decent onboard video these days.

Get yourself a new mobo, CPU, RAM and PSU at the least and you'll be set. You can do a decent board (that has decent onboard video with DVI, VGA and HDMI outputs), a decent dual, triple or quad core CPU, 4GB of DDR3 RAM and a decent PSU for about $300USD . Really not that bad for what you'll get. What you'll get BTW is a huge improvement in all that video related stuff you're into!

Once you've done that and you do want to start playing modern PC games you can add a video card. Because your CPU is no longer the bottleneck and your PSU isn't a time bomb (adding a video card could be the straw that breaks the camels back!) and you have more/faster RAM and PCI-e 2.0. You could add a decent video card to your rig now and even if the PSU doesn't kill everything, your CPU will be a bottleneck. P4's just can't keep up with the modern games.

 

Yeah I use the onboard ION video for my htpc and it handles everything I through at it no problem far as video playback goes, just make sure youre using a player that is hardware accelerated (XBMC isn't if using XP since their dxva code only supports vista/7)

 

5770 is a nice card, but a GTX 460 for gaming properly overclocked in a non-bottlenecked system will far out perform it. And you can get it super cheap if you look in the right places for the 1GB non SE version or the 768MB Ver.

 

I had no idea what bitcoin was, so just looked it up and found this article:-
http://www.dailytech.com/Inside+the+MegaHack+of+Bitcoin+the+Full+Story/article21942.htm
Doesn't seem like a good idea to me

 

Mt Gox isnt 'bitcoin' its just the larger trading market, basing your opinion solely on the mt gox hack is ignorant. Most people involved in bitcoin believe it will rebound, and like I said, you'd basically be generating free money in your idle time

 

Leik I know!1 That was so toally what I din't want to do! :shrug:

In all seriousness, I figured people would refer me to buy a brand new PC.

But I don't want to yet, because I have invested money upgrading to Windows 7, and maxing out my RAM in the past year and so. Believe it or not, I can deal with the PC I have, at least for another year or two. But I still want to upgrade my GPU.

It seems that the biggest flaw in my PC, pointed out by people here, is the Power Box.

If Cyantist is right about pulling the power supply "the fuck out", then what are the best power supply units I can get with the money I'm willing to spend?

 

Don't skimp on the PSU. A blown PSU will cost you an awful lot more than $30 extra you could've paid for a better one.

And yeah, ditch the one you've got. ASAP. Frankly I'm amazed it'll reliably run what you've got.

 

That's what I asked about on my previous post.

What PSU brand would you recommend buying from? I'm searching through Amazon now and I see PSUs on sale for variable amounts. Which one is right for my PC?

 

Bloody Firefox swallowed my completed post. Basically:

1/ Don't trust in brands, they all vary wildly
2/ Spend £50 or so, don't cheap out unless your hardware and data are worth less than the extra
3/ Check the efficiency rating. Higher efficiency = better.

I'm sure I had more to post but it's 9AM