Is your favourite game company green?

Interesting!!!

http://www.greenpeace.org/raw/content/international/press/reports/greener-electronics-ni-7.pdf

 

Seems like their process of evaluating companies is a rather unscientific one. In a lot of areas they say there's no information available, so they mark it as "bad." Why should they assume the worst just because there's no information available? Also, in a couple places it seems like they're not giving Nintendo enough credit. For example, under "provides voluntary takeback where no EPR laws exist," it says that the Nintendo website links to the USEPA website as well as a phone number for information on hardware recycling. Why is it still listed as "bad" then? I'd say that's a step in the right direction, at the very least. Simply labeling things as "good" or "bad" isn't a very objective way of dealing with things to begin with. Likewise, I dislike the terms "green" and "eco-friendly" because they're often used as buzzwords (they're also used by corporations to appeal to certain demographics).

Moreover, as the Nintendo website says, disposal isn't much of a problem because there's a high demand for hardware. People usually either keep their hardware or sell it to somebody else. It just seems to me that there are much more pressing environmental problems (like greenhouse emissions) that should be addressed before dealing with these kinds of problems.

 

Honestly I dont give a damn, the world died a long time ago, the problem is that now is starting to smell...

This green wave is nothing but crap from new age idiots trying to make a quick buck selling poorly made "organic" crap at outrageous prices.

Theres more than enough place to put our garbage, the problem is food: we're running out of oil, which powers all the machinery that feeds humans, and riding a bike and buying lettuce at whole foods is not a solution, is nonsense.

 

I wouldn't say that, exactly. I think it's good that there are people actively trying to improve the environment; I just don't think that it's okay to distort the truth in order to do it. The ends do not justify the means, as they say.

I also don't think it's good to just ignore the issue altogether. It's true that life on Earth has survived much worse catastrophes than the emergence of humans, so we probably don't have the ability to destroy the planet itself. We do, however, have the ability to drive ourselves to extinction. It's questionable whether or not our society has the ability to make a positive change, but we certainly do have that ability from a logistical standpoint. Part (if not all) of the problem lies in the attitude that we're already in the shitter and there's no getting out.

Note to mods: this thread should probably be moved to the "off-topic" forum.

 

One thing is the guy making more efficient solar panels, or better windmills, but idiots selling "organic" tshirts at four times the actual price are opportunistic bastards.

And lets not forget the crazy environazis like peta...

 

True, but I think organic foods are a separate issue entirely. It's probably true (statistically) that the same people who drive hybrids also go to whole food stores, but I don't think anybody who buys or sells whole foods claim that they benefit the environment in some way. I'm pretty sure it's just a matter of health - i.e., they're afraid that mass-produced foods are contaminated by insecticides or otherwise tainted because they've been genetically modified, etc. Those arguments probably have some validity, though it's debatable whether or not they're significant enough to warrant the prices they usually charge. I'm not sure what you mean by "organic t-shirts," though.

 

Organic food is a hoax: not only is bad for the enviroment becos you need more land (since without pesticides you need double the crop becos you'll lose half of it) but is not better for you than what you can find in your local supermarket.

The fact is that insect poo and fungus is worst for your health than any modern farm chemical. Then theres transgenic food which is actually better for you since becos the plant can defend itself against plagues it doesnt needs so many pesticides.

But tell all that to your local organic poser, he/she'll go mad.

Reality is that people doesnt cares about facts, they just believe what they want (or are told) to believe.

Organic is all the rage these days, even when most people dont have a clue about what "organic" means...

 

so true...

up here in the pacific northwest, people are crazy about organic food. all these college kids that think they're saving the world by spending a couple of dollars more on food... they also constantly where flip flops and carry Nalgenes everywhere... :lol:

 

Well, I think the stuff about genetically modified food is probably bullshit. However, I'm pretty sure there have been serious scientific studies showing that the corn syrup used in most mass-produced foods can have negative effects on your health (besides just the fat-content, carbs, etc.). I could be wrong, though.

 

Organic is a fairly meaningless word when used as it stands because it doesn't tell you what they mean by organic. For example, use of Nitrates is seen by some as non organic but as Nitrates are made naturally as a by product of plants and lightening so I can't see the problem. Also use of dried animal blood is used too, which means that some (if not a lot...) of 'Organic' produce is unsuitable for veggies...

One problem with studies is that they are skewed one way, wether it is a scientist who is getting paid by chemical companies or research group being comissioned by a green group. However a lot of studies have shown a decrease in the number of insects and wildlife in areas where GMOs are grown as well cross pollonation of crops when GMO crops have been grown near other non GMO crops...

Congrats, award yourself a medal for stupid quote of the thread award.

Oil is used in a lot of other things, like making plastic and transporting things that will become rubbish, it is also used to transport food from one side of the planet to another...

To show how stupid things are, in countries that have a lower cost of living, say China, they can produce food very cheaply and export it. In Japan, you can buy things like Garlic at half the price if it's chinese then Japanese, ignoring the fact that it's taken a lot more fuel and oil to transport it from China to Japan. I generally do tend to buy locally produced food where ever possible, when I was living in Saitama the place is a mixture of small towns surrounded by a large number of fields and allotments and I tended to buy a lot of veggies from local people or supermarkets which all tended to have sections of locally produced food.

It's worth looking around to see if you have farmers markets or places that have local produced food (which are generally markets...) as you will get better tasting, slightly more expensive but more 'Green' food.

Agreed the Greenpeace survey is very skewed but I still think all companies that produce items should take back and recycle their products, preferablely by refunding you a token amount so you do recycle it rather then smash it into tiny pieces and add it to the landfill...

 

Back on topic:

The Greenpeace discussion papers have been completely ridiculed as the person who wrote them went 'I'm going to read their website and if I can't find any information they are obviously not a green company' - ignoring papers, information available by just going on Google and using common sense.

Nintendo got a bad rap for not supplying info on their site rather than not being 'green' (aka: having a good recycling policy, choice of materials, etc.). The Wii is non-BFR, non-PVC (AFAIK) and has the lowest power consumption of the three current consoles.

And Shadowlayer: I'll pre-empt you by saying I don't care about your opinions of the Wii. I know it's not as powerful as the other two consoles, but it has some good games that have not been as good (or released at all) on the other two consoles. This discussion is about better recycling of hardware and making consoles that don't waste huge amounts of energy on standby. It's not about 'organic' veg or your opinions on hippies.

However, (Ed note: to everyone anti-environment in the audience) if you wish to storm around chewing on a big slab of steak shouting 'I AM A MAN!' so that you can ride around in a 6mpg pickup truck with a shotgun in the back so be it. But heed this warning because one day you'll be driving along, chugging a six-pack of Miller until you crash into a tree and kill your sweet baby girl. You didn't fit her seat right, did you (or even at all)? You cry yourself to sleep at night wishing that the night terrors would stop - oh, why won't they stop? Eventually, you get over it. You slip back into your old ways, you raise a boy who you bring up in your own image, until one day you get into an argument with him, he gets in the truck and starts to drive off. You try and stop him, telling him he can't go to the movies with 'Jane' because she's a dirty tramp that only wants you for the sex, and he runs you down. Your last dying word will be 'Candyfloss' for a reason only known to yourself.




I should really stop procrastinating and write some DX9 code to make this ball bounce.

 

You can thank the WTO for that. However, the only way imported food can sell cheaper is if the cost of fuel for bringing it over is cheaper and that is what the free trade agreement the world has heavily relies on. If fuel prices keep going up, then food that used to be cheap because it was imported, will now go up.

For example, in my hometown, bananas are from chile, at any super market I go to, and last year they were 0.49$/pound but now they are 0.83$/pound and its still from chile. Countries like Dominican Republic, Haiti and Central America have banana farms and are capable of sending their tropical fruits over and will cost less as it is much closer to the US, than Chile.

Also, petroleum is used as a fertilizer.

And a good source of good food is through local farmers market. Food is much cheaper there, but most people are busy and rely on supermarkets for their vegetables/fruits...

 

mooseblaster why dont you just go with all the nazis and have a party shooting at people that dont agree with your "cause"?

Seriously, why is that every enviromoron thinks that becos someone doesnt agree with them then he/she must be a truck driving uneducated redneck...

I drive a Civic you moron, you know why? becos hybrids dont work: the fact is that the savings on gas are nothing compared to the huge amounts of extra components those cars require. The battery alone is pure pollution, so much that in numbers making a Prius will hurt the enviroment even more than running a Hummer around.

No wonder that a study shows that the big majority of people getting an hybrid are the typical upper-class posers that seek social approval, NOT helping the enviroment.

And lets not even start on alternative fuels: corn ethanol is BULLSHIT, they spend more energy (read: oil, natural gas and coal) making it that the actual energy that gives when burned. It would be more efficient if made with switchgrass but alas, there isnt a switchgrass lobby, but theres a bigass one for corn...

Do you know anything about molecular biology? have you ever talk to someone who knows? 'cause I did, and guess what? GMOs cant do shit to you for the simple fact that you cant get foreign DNA on your DNA by just eating a tomato that has fish genes. On the other hand you can get a shitload of diseases from bug infested food.

And food shipping, before you start with the usual crap about home-grown veggies I got news for you: it doesnt works. The fact is that if you plan to feed you entire family on what you can grow on you backyard then prepare to starve your kids to death. The numbers are in and the crop yield you can get from your garden isnt enough.

And recycling? are you 5 yrs old or what? recycling doesnt works, it consumes way more energy (and money BTW) that what you'll get at the end of the process. I'm not saying garbage wont be a problem, just that it isnt a problem now and wont be for many years to come. On the other hand we're running out of oil, have no replacement and burning what its left of it to recycle your furry-porn isnt the best idea, get it?

The point is that this whole green thing isnt doing shit for the planet, its all about pretending to do something: google pretends to help the enviroment by getting a few solarcells here and there, but that doesnt compensates for their server farms and wifi buses.

The enviromorons like you arent hippies you dickwad, hippies actually did something for the enviroment by reducing their needs and therefore reducing their carbon footprint. They didnt went and make the same shit products walmart does, calling it "organic" to feel better about themselves like you and half the developed world does.

You know whats organic? organic is the key for big corporations and billionaire-wannabes to sell you the same crap you have around your house (and your house) all over again, just so you can feel guilt-free until the next fad comes over.

And BTW get some fucking help dude, what you wrote sounds like you have some serious issues going around...

As for me I'm replacing my Civic with a common-rail diesel as soon as those are available.

 

I apologise profusely for getting your back up - I wasn't directing a hatred, merely being overly weird. I was trying to paint an ironic picture of how people stereotypically see people who don't care about the environment are pick-up truck owners with large bellies and go 'yee-haw' and 'shucks' at any available opportunity. This was a general statement to everybody who people who say 'who gives a f*ck' when asked about any environmental issue, and not meant to be directed at you. The omnipresent Ed has come and stapled a caveat to my words, so that people will not garner hatred from it.

I don't condone people who are 100% obsessed with environmental matters and overly extremist views, but what I would like to see is people realising that we can't just keep chucking EVERYTHING into a giant bin - called a landfill - and forgetting about it, and when we fill it up making another giant bin and starting all over again. Whilst waste is a 'necessary evil' in modern living, it's stupid that we lock away huge amounts of energy and resources by sticking it in a big hole in the ground and doing nothing with it.

As for me, I drive a 10-year old Rover which spews out smoke at any available opportunity, don't go out of my way to buy organic food (unless it's the only kind that doesn't taste like crap - what's the deal with putting citric acid in chopped tomatoes anyway?) but do recycle quite a lot of things because the council offer it. I don't go to farm shops because actually the process of many people driving extra miles is more polluting than a truck of food going to the supermarket along with everyone else.

I think the hybrid could be a heck of a lot better if car companies tried harder to think alternatively. The hydrogen car (and in fact, chuck biofuel and alcohol into the mix too) is a stupid flight-of-fancy so that oil companies to keep selling us fuel, and thus making money.

I believe that the anti-GMO campaign was a tabloid overhype thing because it was a slow news day. The issue people had was with not knowing what was in their food, which worries people somewhat. It's nice, however, that it has promoted better food labelling (at least in Europe) and promoted 'cleaner', less artifical food, even at the expense to the consumer.

Oh, and my extraneous rambling was just to add humour to the situation - a 'faux-rant' if you will to lighten up the mood slightly. I'm sorry if it was a bit too surreal, but alas that's just how I roll, dawg.

Have a comic to lighten you up: http://xkcd.com/16/

 

Driving your 10year old rover is better for the environment than buying a brand new car hybrid or not, and buying one every year like some do. Theres bound to be more pollution caused by building a whole new car, transporting it half way around the world to you, than there is in simply using the same car you've already got even if its emissions are a bit higher.

I'm getting sick of hearing about green issues and the like, because most of the time its some greedy company or government out to make more money. Green is a great excuse for charging more, because if you complain that makes you a environment hating eco-terrorist!

 

PS:

a) I take offence with being branded as a Nazi, by the way. I don't believe anyone should be horrifically killed just for having a difference of opinion.
b) I feel that everyone is free to believe what they want to believe. Whilst I'll fight for my right to have an opinion, I don't mind if you don't support them. Such things promote debate, and that's a good thing.
c) The Nazis didn't give two shits about the environment either. Why would I want to go with them?
d) Godwin's law.

I would list a pile of places where I think you are incorrect, but as it'll only propogate further backlash then it's not really worth it.

Ah, but the issue is the large amount of smoke it produces, combined with the fact that over time the MPG of a car decreases significally whilst the amount of pollution it produces increases. However, it's stupid that cars also get crushed and left to rust rather than being recycled, and that some people HAVE to buy a slight variation of the same car just so they can have the latest plate.

Plus, I must point out that the Honda factory is about 2-3 hours away from me, so no crossing the sea required, but that's just being finickity.

You're right though, being green is a constant 'in your face' news thing and it sickens me to death to constantly hear about it, but I suppose it's better than not talking about it at all.

Anyway, going back to the start of this topic: that Greenpeace paper is RUBBISH!

 

If you say you are pro-environment, then let me ask you this. What are you doing to help it? I'd like to see people's responses...

 

I'm doing my part by playing old SNES games instead of buying a Wii.

 

The problem with recycling is that we dont have the technology to do it efficiently. The system uses a lot of energy, which comes from power plants running on fossil fuel, which translates into more CO2.

That dwarfs any savings made by recycling instead of throwing it into a landfill...

The solution is to use some clever recycling: the reason why I'm getting a diesel is not only the higher MPGs, but the fact that I can make my own fuel with used cooking oil. That oil is quite a trouble since is not easy to get rid of it without polluting. But using it as fuel is a great idea since not only has just a fraction of the CO2 fossil diesel has, but it also replaces the energy you would have to get from fossil by using something thats going into the garbage anyway.

Another solution is to demand your local retailers less packaging and made with biodegradable materials. I cant believe the amount of crap that comes with everything I buy. I dont need 3 layers of styrofoam, which BTW will stay in this planet more time than the civilization that created it.

The problem is that theres too many dogmas in the green community. Is funny to hear the local poser talking about bicycles and trains as a solution. The fact is that trains pollute a lot, and run almost empty most of the time. Bicycles while clean they need YOU to propel them, and therefore you need more calories to replace the ones you burn running your bike. Those calories come from food, food which uses obscene amounts of energy (7 oil calories per edible calorie) to be created.

About the nazi part, actually nazis were big environmentalists, they created several protected national parks, laws protecting the wildlife and (believe it or not) hitler was a vegetarian.

Ironic isnt it? specially since peta likes to talk smack about meat eaters, uses propaganda to convince children of their cause, and they kill animals (10000 and counting) even when they'll destroy your life if you ever dare to kick a dog.

The similarities are scary to say the least...

 

Hey, shut up!

Not all of us who carry Nalgene water bottles are pretentious college kids!