Thing is, the PS2 has a load of 2D collection type discs which run perfectly and at 480p on component. Can you make a machine that will do that for around $100?
Of course, the reason why consoles get such good performance is because of the uniformity of the systems. The Xbox is simply an x86 box with one standard set of components throughout every single console that ships. Could that apply there, as in only having one set specification?
@opethfan: not by me and you. The XBOX might have the specs of off-the-shelf components, but that doesn't mean that they werent optimized and integrated. Also, if anything is to be learned from the XBOX is that having off the shelf components and repackaging them can lead to legal chaos over rights on individual components. This further restricts the lower achievable price and imposes limitations in marketing the object in different markets around the world. In short, custom technologies offer more bang for your money. The XBOX 1 is powerful for example, but it's a thermal triumph. Its processor doesn't hold a candle to the GC's processor if they were both clocked at the same speed. The evidence lies in the Wii - developers claiming that it is more powerful than an XBOX 1. (this is a CPU comparison, not a GPU comparison btw) Off the shelf PC components are usually aimed at general applications and don't offer 'short-cuts' or 'tricks' for gaining more power. For me, this is the most exciting aspect of consoles - the often unorthodox way of making things faster and more efficient, by radically thinking different from the ground-up.
Of course that's exciting, I love reading up on the technical specs of a system and how it all works together. But surely there's also an exciting aspect in building a system that's both capable and usable for a fairly low price. Thinking out the box is another part of the technical world: not everything is as it seems. The Mega Drive/Genesis and GP2X both used off the shelf components, and that's the type of system I was generally basing this whole plan: a GP2X for underneath your TV. Designed with emulation and homebrew in mind, for a reasonable price.
frankly, a small do-it-all box would be nice, but PCs dominate this area. This is evident by a PSP to GP32 comparison as well. Although the PSP is mainly geared for its own games, it has been more widely accepted as an emulation platform, despite GP32 being open source :/ The insentive is not enough for such a venture at this time unfortunately. Even if you want x86 sitting under your Tele, the XBOX 1 is there for you
Depends on your idea of "perfectly". Personally, I think someone that describes 240p games running perfectly in 480p should be banned... and a little beaten. Too bad I'm not a mod.
Good point on the Xbox, but the thing with an Xbox is that it's big, ugly, has pretty crap controllers and I've found setup over FTP can still be a bit fiddly on my softmod (1 bad step and you're screwed, as I've learnt first hand). Not only that, but homebrew's pretty stunted by the legal issues with the XDK.
if anything, the PS2 should be praised for being able to go below 480i/p resolutions, sticking to the original outputs.
I know the following isn't exactly true, but when Sega bolted a second processor onto its existing Saturn hardware it ended up creating a 2D powerhouse I believe has yet to be rivalled, even if more recent technology does have the capability for greater levels of performance. Sadly, these days most developers are embracing the "polygons or nothing" approach that has led to a flood of identikit games within a few limited genres, unlike on a flat plane where there was scope for a lot more freedom - just look at the many differences between vintage Sonic and Mario titles, despite the fact both were fundamentally quite similar! A true sprite-pushing monster of a console isn't totally impossible, though I doubt it's going to happen unless the Neo Geo is resurrected or Capcom tries getting into the hardware market. Sega could probably make a decent enough comeback system without breaking its newly-found profit reserves, but it's highly unlikely because that's just not where the money is today - even if there are still many people who'd love to play on such a thing... Has anybody really experimented with something like the Xbox 360, PlayStation 3 or even the Lindbergh arcade board (providing the development tools for this are within public domain yet, that is) to see just how the many effects possible on next generation platforms can be utilised for processing two dimensional graphics? All that memory and lighting/shading power could easily be applied to a sprite-based world, and by this I don't just mean creating HD quality redrawings of Street Fighter characters (mentioning no names, Capcom)...
you have to realize that sprites are not a better solution for 2D than polygones. It's just retarded to use sprites when u have polygones , there's no benefit whatsoever
The Dreamcast was a great 2D capable system as well. My friend and I would play the hell out of Fire Pro Wrestling D which is sprite based. BTW, SH-4s can be had at Digi-Key for ~US$40 per individual unit, SH-2s for a bit less. ;-)
to be able to utilize SH4 processors in a PC you will need a PCI board to host it. They were sold until 3-4 years ago at Hitachi semiconductor, before they changed the company. Also, there were complete HARP systems, with a central SH4 processor and embedded WINCE or Linux. I have pictures somewhere. SH series processors are widely used in many consumer electronics , especially portable ones, that require a small foot-print, energy efficiency and scalability. The SH-5 is a very nice chip as well from my experience, and is compatible with the SH-4 instruction set I believe. No experience with the SH-6 yet though.
Best option, as someone else said, would be to use the PC platform as the basis of the machine. Off the shelf parts are cheap, well tested and well documented from a development POV.
Jim, you skipped reading about the XBOX console and the legal chaos on the rights of the components. Technically a PC based platform would be ideal, that being true, PCs by their nature use a variety of suppliers for different parts, which makes the 'comming together' of all this relatively 'cheap' components a very expensive practice. PC components are at their cheapest in the after-market, not their first sale. Unless someone starts making consoles from used parts, there's no escaping the XBOX-syndrome.
Well, if you want to be that technical about it then there hasn't been a "2D-only" console since the 8-bit days. The Megadrive and the Super Famicom both had 3D games on them.
Don't Renesas make a PCI board for the SH4? Anyways, SH4 development hasn't done a lot in a while. There's the new SH4a core, but that's maxing out at 240mhz, with the same MIPS\mhz as the SH4 in the Dreamcast. The Renesas website does mention a 600mhz SH4a in development, which is 3x as powerful (when you measure by MIPS only) as the CPU in the Dreamcast, with 1080 MIPS at 600mhz (the DC had 360 MIPS at 200mhz). There is a dual core SH4 in development too, which looks pretty cool. I hardly know anything about the SH5. Renesas don't mention it on their SH website for some reason :shrug:. As far as I know, there isn't an SH6. And yes, x86 isn't the best platform for embedded systems (I'm not sure about some of VIA's offerings with the C7 or AMD's with the Geode), due to it's unstable performance and wide variety of different chips, each with different specifications. x86 chips are frequently discontinued and updated, and that can have very negative consequences for a video game system. AMD's Geode chip does seem quite promising though, if it doesn't have the same drawbacks.
on the topic of SH-6 and SH-7 http://www.hitachi.com/New/cnews/E/2000/001011B.html The DC's successor was planned to have a binary compatible SH-5 from what I recall. I read about a deal with hitachi back in the day, when the DC was still well and kicking.
Which electronics catalogue do you use to find the Sega Custom chips in? Although the hardware was backwards compatable with 2 known off the shelf chips I wasn't aware that they made the chip so you could buy it... The GP2X was the last console to feature total off the shelf components (or at least the last one with support). The Bandai Playdia if I am correct was the last console to be completely off the shelf.
