MS Releases XNA for Xbox 360, homebrew for the masses!

The info:

http://xbox360.ign.com/articles/750/750368p1.html
http://msdn.microsoft.com/directx/XNA/creators/default.aspx

The Required PC side downloads (in order):

Visual C# Express:

http://msdn.microsoft.com/vstudio/express/visualcsharp/download/

XNA Framework:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=2E136A1F-F187-478C-9DA5-AAEB0904782B&displaylang=en

XNA Game Studio Express:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyId=A73A7E71-FF41-432D-A0EB-043E904A1905&displaylang=en

The Xbox 360 Side needed downloads (XNA launcher and Creaters Club Subscription) are on the Xbox Marketplace,

LOTS of XNA Coding Tutorials:

http://xbox360homebrew.com/content/XNATutorialMasterList.aspx

The Good News:
The development environment is free!
MSDN Support!
MS will have a contest where the winner gets to publish thier game on Xbox Live Arcade!
Same Code should compile for 360 and PC!

The Bummer news:

To actually run your software on the 360 you have to pay $49.99 for 4 months, or $99.99 for a year (It's all under game downloads in the Marketplace, then at the bottom of the list under 'Newly Released'

Currently, the only way to share your software is to send the source code and have the recipient compile and put on thier 360.

Currently, you cannot run XNA programs on your 360 unless you join the Creators Club.

The other good news:

Apperently, the last two 'bad news' items are temporary, and MS says in the future there will be a way to distribute compiled apps to non-club members!
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Subscription based? Excuse my language but fuck that. One time fee and Im on board, otherwise they can go screw themselves. I pay enough for XBL.

 

One time might be better sure, but it's still a helluva lot cheaper than aquiring an Xbox 360 development Kit in some back alley in Hong Kong ;-)

And for people not interested in the coding aspect but just using the homebrew, just gotta wait, MS has said they will add that in the future for no cost. They want it to be the "YouTube of Programming".

 

It's great to see, but why force people to program in C#? Where is the C and C++ love?

Microsoft are finding more and more ways to trip people into their own coding formats. Still, the Xpress versions of Visual Studio are a nice thing to put out there, I've been using the C++ version for some time now.

 

http://channel9.msdn.com/Showpost.aspx?postid=261254

Video that has some very cool technical info on the whole thing.

(once you get past the first 5 minutes where they geek out.)

Well worth watching if your interested.

They show "XNA Racer" which doesn't look 1/2 bad running at 1080p at 30fps only using a single core!

 

I think this is for ease of porting between the platform and one of the principal of XNA same code (managed) same assets that work on two platform.

Probably MS first attempt to push C# to the masses in the game industry. C# contrary to other interpreted languages like Java is not bad in terms of performances. A big money saver for people developing titles for PC and 360...

Sabre

 

Great but I don't like working in C#, I wonder if we can still mostly work in c++ and just interface though C#.

 

The major issue I have with things like C# is that you have to use Microsoft solutions like Visual Studio. Now that there is the Xpress versions that's not such an issue because the cost problem is negated, but with hobbiest projects like this you see new people being funneled into working with propriety Microsoft technologies and learning the Microsoft way of doing things, which is not always the best way as we can see with the numerous security issues with their software and huge footprints.

The offset of this kind of thing is that people moving into games design and development will no doubt take this route as a means of getting experience with industry tools and methods. C#, despite making code more portable, is weaker performance-wise and as I said, is not an open format so down the line you're going to be part of the monopoly that Microsoft helps enforce with this kind of project.

I might appear as though I am looking a gift horse in the mouth, I probably am. Kudos to Microsoft for helping the homebrew community (and diverting reasons to hack the hardware, hehe) but I hope this leads to a copycat solution from Sony that is part of the more open source linux vision and uses C++. Nintendo would never go this route, unfortunately - it would be a blast to work on projects for the Wii or DS.

 

Personaly I have no issue with using visual studios. Even back with VS6, to get just the c++ Ed. it was only like around $100. It was not very expensive (nobody really needed Enterprise Ed. unless you work comercialy). Now that VS Xpress is free, i think it just makes things even better. Some of the best development tools to aide in development are made for Visual Studios like Visual Assist or Ref++.

My problem with C# is the same with MFC, I just dont like working in it. I also really dont like being forced to use it either. Luckly it might still be posible to just write c++ and use C# to interface it.

Over all tho, I think the XNA setup is great. It's giving people a console equivilent of VS + DirectX (Yes, I know sony offered it first with the ps1, i'm glad devs are still supporting this). This will even more open the door to garage studios or allow exsisting comercial developers to build something to let them form their own studio.

 

You can run Visual Basic .NET if you know what you are doing, google it for more information.

And its only C# based for now (The XNA libraries, anyway). There is talk of other languages in the future....but they had to start somewhere

And I think if it was C/C++ based, tehy'd probably be afraid of the oncoming slew of emulators ported to it.

EDIT================================
On another note, I jsut bought a Creators Club membership and, well, my game won't run! Works fine on the PC deployment, but the 360 version executes but just exits. And worst of all, no way of debugging the code!

And since I had to edit the code to get it to compile for the 360, now I can't even compare the two sources, as the "Cross-platform" idea isn't a reality (I had to change all my resource fetching and caching for the 360 to compile).

 

Gamasutra.com has an excellent write-up on XNA and 360 as well:

http://www.gamasutra.com/features/20061215/sheffield_01.shtml

Also, a site where homebrewers can get info and distribute their work:

http://xbox360homebrew.com/default.aspx

 

ouch that blows. That's BS that you can't debug in real time. I know it might be a security threat but seriously. You can't code without some form of a debuger.

 

Quote from someone on Fark.com:

"I've been a C++ programmer for over 15 years, I decided to try C# specifically for using XNA Express back when it was in beta. It literally was the matter of a few days to make the transition, and C# is actually a far better language than I would have ever thought. It's really a nice language to program in."

Any C++ programmers worried about a new language should have thier minds put somewhat at ease.

In the end, we'll just have to see how it all plays out. If it makes Sony or Nintendo step up to the plate and start competition between all three in this area it can only be good for all of us.

 

Kudos to microsoft. I really think they have a great idea. while C# is not as powerful as C++ is brings allot of benifits to the average home developer and allows for fast implementation of their game. DO I like C# better than C++ no not really but with what they are trying to do it makes allot of sense. I know most begginers get lost with C++ from pointers and references and C# avoids that. Also C# makes faster implementation which will keep the average user more intersted and allow for more games to show up. While they may charge to play on the xbox you can always avoid that and just use your PC. To me this makes a hell of allot more sense than when sony put out yaroze or their linux PS2 system. AS for complaints on MS Studio what do you expect it is a microsoft project but to most beggining programmers that is a great start. I am unsure on the rest of the world but in the silicon valley you better know MS Studio most programming jobs revolve around it and to me it sure beats bordland or codewarrior, well at least studio 6 and 2005. 2003 has more than a few issues.

 

Hehe. It does not take much to be better then codewarrior. Only thing I like in CW is the disassembler (just right click a file and select). If only someone would do something simular for Visual Studios.

 

Just to clarify, I am an idiot! There is a way of debugging in real time, I just misunderstood the way the whole deployment works. I can run it as debug instead of deploying it directly to my 360.

Still though, my PC compatible game wouldn't work on the 360 without alot of editing of my resource loading code, so they've lost points on there XNA cross platform functionality with me.

 

Good news but that sucks about your pc work.

 

probably wouldn't be to hard to write an add-in for that. did one for right clicking files in vs.net and open them in notepad ;D

 

I would have been all over this if i was still in college. Having a full-time job and also wanting to PLAY games doesnt leave much time for actually creating any...

So, college kids, what the hell are you waiting for?

 

XNAero Wars!

Okay, so I threw together a quick video of my XNA game dev progress over the period since the XNA launcher was released, and today!

Figured some people on here may be wondering exactly how easy it is to throw together something, and from my video it obviously is!

Starts off deploying the content to my 360, then the game starts.

Yeah, the art sucks and the music is "borrowed". But I'm just one man, with a real job and University to deal with too.

Oh, and yeah, when the actual game launches, that is only quarter of the ship displayed. I'm adjusting some special effect code at the moment so its unfortunatly clipped incorrectly.

Anywho, here you go

XNA Video!