Hi, I'm in the process of researching/writing a business plan for a video game software company as I investigate the possibiliteis of starting my own company. I need some help from the professional programmers whom read this board. Could you please answer a couple questions? Thank you. What is the average salary for an entry level programmer? What is the average salary for a senior programmer? How many programmers work on a particular game project at one time? (I understand that larger and more complicated projects need more people. I'm looking at the requirements for an action game.) What is the general time frame it takes to complete a game? I understand that the time it takes depends on the size and scope of the game and the number of programmers working on it, I guess what I'm getting at is is it possible for 2-4 programmers to complete a game in about a years time without killing themselves? What is a reasonable amount of time? As much information in this vein as you are able and willing to share would be much appreciated! Thank you, samael
What is the average salary for an entry level programmer? What is the average salary for a senior programmer? Depends on location. Best bet is to pick up the recent Game Developers Magazine as that will list the full range of what programers, artist, designers and producers make. How many programmers work on a particular game project at one time? Handhelds - 1-4, Consoles - 10+, Big production game - 24+ What is the general time frame it takes to complete a game? Depends on the Game and platform. Usualy figure 1 year + depending how complete the game is and how experienced your team is. I understand that the time it takes depends on the size and scope of the game and the number of programmers working on it, I guess what I'm getting at is is it possible for 2-4 programmers to complete a game in about a years time without killing themselves? What is a reasonable amount of time? Not posible in this life time bub. Maybe for a GBA or PSP game but no F'n way on a ps2/xbox/gamecube.
Making a game requires more than just programmers. If you want to create a new startup, you either need to be VERY rich, have good backers or have a lot of friends who are experienced developers and willing to work for nothing for some time. With an established team in place (Artists, musicians, programmers, producers, script writers, QA and financial management) you're looking at 1-3 years to complete a title. As a startup, add at least another year or two to get up to speed, plus more to overcome the initial problems an inexperienced team would have in gelling together. Total cost will be at least 5-10 MILLION dollars. Take a look at some of the jobs advertised at gamasutra.com or gamesindustry.biz for an idea of salaries. Don't forget to add agency fees of up to 20% of annual salary per team member, plus employers tax and insurance contributions. Then there's relocation fees you would have to offer some of your employees. It's an expensive business, and unless you have a really good understanding of the industry, a bad investment. (And usually a bad investment anyway, look at the number of companies that have folded or are in financial trouble)
Thank you for the responses so far. Anything else that anyone wants to share would be much appreciated! I fully understand that it takes more than just programmers to make a game, but I only need your help with information on programmers.
If it's getting started you're worried about, you could always do a couple of small titles, like puzzle games or kiddy games, to get your people experienced and have a steady revenue stream. As for how much programmers make, like Stubby said it depends on how experienced they are and where you're located. You can get away with paying someone less in a state with a lower standard of living (say like Iowa vs. California.) Problem is it'll be harder to find talent away from the big cities. Top level guys for some companies make 50,000-80,000 or more a year, but you could problably get away with $25,000-30,000 or less depending if you're willing to take guys fresh out of school with no titles under thier belt. Really that's not that much, maybe $20 bucks an hour (before taxes.) As for things like artists, musicians, voice acting, etc. you can pay them dirt, in fact go to your local art college and you'll have talented kids leaping at the chance to work for peanuts. Whoever publishes your title will take care of the advertising, Q&A, etc. If you need an artist by the way, I like to fool myself into thinking I am one.
Go to www.igda.org you'll find ALL OF THE ANSWERS there. It is where most of these answers^^^ came from in the first place.
Hmm. Well, for sure, you'll find the info you require at industry agency sites. In the UK, there are those such as Aardvark Swift, not sure about the US. EA have their own vacancies page, you could try that. I would personally say that the most important thing to get into the industry is knowledge, experience, and above all, respect. You could go throwing money around knowing sod all about the industry, but you wouldn't get very far. If you got a VERY good team, you might get lucky, but then, I'm imagining that the BEST of the best all work somewhere already It isn't just programmers, you know. There's sound engineers, many types of graphic artists, QA testers, not to mention a good industry management team. I hope that you have experience, otherwise you'll find yourself jumping in at the deep end. As for a good team programmer wise, there's a difference between good programmers, and good games programmers - if you browse those classifieds, you'll find they want industry experience. There's reason behind that. Then of course, you need a good industry lawyer. There will be contracts with staff, contracts with other companies (publishing contracts, NDAs etc.). Getting hold of some dev gear may possibly be tricky if you're not an established software house. How many programmers at a time? Sure, it'll depend to a degree on a project, but I'd say more on how quickly you want it done, and how many projects you want going at one time. If you envisage one project for a year with 4 programmers, with a $50,000 salary, that's $200,000 you have to fork out before you start to see anything back - and (especially for a newcomer), that'll take a long time to recoup, i'd imagine. I guess my advice would be - if you don't know the answers to these questions, don't try to do it! Get some more experience in the industry first. As I see it, most small software houses are formed by people who have been in the industry a while. Sure, there are questions to be asked when thinking of such things. However, if you can't answer a question such as how much will a programmer want, or find the answer for yourself, then that suggests you don't know much about programming. Employing programmers and hoping they'll just get on with it isn't good strategy - like any business, you need to manage your team, and have an idea of what they are doing. A software house is an interlinked community, and it needs to be run efficiently. Certainly, a lot of them ARE run by people only interested in money - but they still have intricate business plans. To answer your question on how many, here are a few recruitments from the same company: XBox Lead Programmer / Physics Programmer Gameplay Programmer / Games Programmer / GUI Programmer / Senior Programmer / Game Programmer for PSP / Game Systems Programmer for PSP So, in other words, you may have programmers working on the engine, others working on gameplay, others working on sound (not composers/engineers), others working on graphics (not graphic artists), and more working on custom tools. Then you'll have a sound engineer, maybe a seperate composer, perhaps even a seperate SFX creator. You will have a series of designers, including general designers and level designers. As for graphics - let's have a look at some jobs again: Texture artist / Concept artist / Character modellers / World artists / Effects artists / World modellers / World texturer / Technical artist / Front end artist / 2D Motion Graphics artist / Track artist / Vehicle modeller / Demo artist / 3D artist / Lighting artists So yeah, let's say a graphic artist for your box art, posters etc., character modellers, background/world artists. Then you may well need a QA team. And a management team - project managers, producers and directors. If you want to know how many people work on a game, pick one up and read the manual!! GTA 3 has over 250 names listed! OK, that's an extreme. I believe I have a Saturn game with about 12 names listed.
As stated previously, I fully realise that there are people other than programmers who work on games. I came to you, the informed members of this message board to find the answers to the questions above about programmers as I thought this would be the best place to start looking for them. Wow...I guess no one should ever try anything new, huh? BTW, Shiny Ent. was started by a farm boy from Iowa who was interested in programming, but did not have much hands on experience. He tried something new, he learned, and he sold his company for 50 million dollars. Yeah, you should never try anything new... First off, is everyone with an interest in video game creation automatically supposed to know how much every person involved in a game's creation is compensated for their efforts? Off the top of your head, do you know how much an entry level PR Specialist makes, or how about the guy who comes up with new kinds of cereal? Of course research is involved...Silly me, I thought finding out for myself meant asking the right people. I thought this message board was the quickest and best way to find the right people...guess I was wrong... Wow, didn't realise I needed a plan... I guess that is why I am spending so much time writing a business plan and planning out my goals for the next three to five years before I go around asking for money and hiring people... I'm not trying to piss people off with this response, just defend myself. The sarcasam above is just to point out the things I do not agree with, or to defend my position, it is not meant to anger anyone, just to illustrate a point. I have some simple questions that I did not know the answers to, so I came to the first place, the best place I thought these questions could be answered. I didn't come here to be told I was stupid for wanting to do something new, especially by someone who has no idea about my abilities, experiences, or qualifications. Thank you to those whom have answered thus far! I welcome more responses from those whom wish to give them. Again, thank you, samael
