Possible ways to read GD-Roms on a PC?

Hi everyone,
Just recently I have been thinking there are some Dreamcast games I would really like to have backups off (Which is perfectly legal where I live) - Im not a pirate or anything - but I would like to protect my originals and use them as little as possible (My copy of Rez already has some scratches, and GD-Roms are not the most reliable of media)

Now I know that GD-Roms cannot be read in a conventional CD/DVD drive, and that the usual way to 'rip' a game is by using the BBA or a Serial Coders cable - however, this isnt what im really interested in as BBA's are very expensive, and the coders cable is incredibly slow.

There are two ways I can think of doing this:-
1) Find a compatable CD/DVD Drive which is capable or reading GD-Roms natively or with a modified firmware/hardware modification.
2) Connect up the actual GD-Rom drive from a Dreamcast console to my PC.

Now I know the first method has been attempted by a number of people, but no-one seems to have had perfect success with it, expecially with games that have more than one track.

There was a Sega firmware for the HKT-0400 GD-Writer released by Kalisto that was supposed to make the Yamaha CDR-400t drive read GD-roms, but as far as I know no-one has ever got this to work (?) and even if they had, the GD-Writer apparently doesnt read GD-Roms anyway, only GD-R's. :-(

So what I was wondering is, were any of the Dreamcast development system drives (Such as the one in the Katana system) ever capable of reading pressed GD-Roms? and if so has the firmware from these drives ever been released? Also, if it could read GD-Roms, does anyone have any pictures of the drive board/connectors?

If the first method seems unlikely I am hoping that the second method is plausable. The Dreamcast GD drive in most Dreamcast consoles (except the VA2 board) is a self contained unit, which has a custom connector to the motherboard. Now I think it uses a 50 pin connector, so what im wondering is could this be adapted to either an SCSI or IDE connection so that the drive could be directly connected to a PC? and if so has anyone attempted this?
I would imagine an SCSI connection would be the most likely as it uses 50 wires, and is also the connection used in development systems.
So, if I were to solder up an SCSI cable to the connectors on a Dreamcast drive unit, would this 'possibly' allow me to use the GD drive on a PC?

Sorry for such a long post, and I hope no-one minds me asking all this - I just find this challenge very interesting.:icon_bigg

 

give it a shot, who knows

 

Well I will! but I just want to check if I am along the right lines or not first...

I would love to get some close-up pictures of the HKT-0400 internals - I know that segakatana.com used to have some great pictures but the site is down, and I can only find thumbnails of the pictures from this google image search (Bottom of page):-
http://images.google.co.uk/images?hl=en&q=HKT-0400&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi

Did anybody save these pictures full size at all?

Also, was there only one drive used during Dreamcast development? (the HKT-0400) or were there others? and can the HKT-0400 be 'made' to read GD-Roms?

Thanks in advance for any help

P.S. I know this is a long shot, but if anyone here has a faulty GD-Writer (HKT-0400) they would be willing to sell for a reasonable/cheap price I would be VERY interested - so I could study it :icon_bigg

 

I have a GD-r writer that i am willing to part with, i am unsure if it is working or not as i have never been able to properly test it, PM me for more info

 

LoL, I remember when you bought it. :110:

Anyway, the Yamaha firmware doesn't do anything fantastic, don't bother:
http://dcemulation.org/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=95197

I also posted in that thread, but here it is for those who may not read it:

Here's another thread on it:
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5987

I can't find the older thread, but LeGIT mentioned he was able to view the contents on his Windows 98 PC. Now, I'm beginning to think that it was only a dream and that it never really happened.

 

When you say "switch," is it an on / off switch or is it the potentiometer that you're only supposed to turn a little bit? If the latter, do you still have the picture of the settings before the adjustment (their factory positions)?

 

Thanks for your replies :icon_bigg

Mark30001, I have read some threads and I believe you have something to do with the running of segakatana.com? - Can I ask what happened to the site? As I miss it and would have asked this question on the forums if it was still up :crying:

Also, do you have any way to access the pictures of the GD-Witer from Segakatana.com? and could you tell me what type of laser the GD-writer used? (Im guessing its an SPU-3200)

What about the GD-Drive used used in the HKT-0120 unit? They appear to be different to the HKT-0400 GD-writer - in fact they look alot like a Dreamcast laser unit just plonked in a PC drive tray! How do they interface with the HKT-0120's motherboard?

Well, im just curious, I know that when the CDR-400t is flashed with the firmware it shows up as a Sega GDR drive, although no-one has got it to do anything more than that yet. Its just seems to me that there is more to it than has currently been found.

Do you know if its true that early GD-writers were actual CDR-400t drives? Apparently it is mentioned in the development documents - I dont suppose you know anything more about this?

I also wonder if there are any other Yamaha drives that are closely related to the Katana GD-writer. The CDR-200 is very similar to the CDR-400t (It can even be turned into a CD-400t with a simple internal modification) so pehaps the GD-writer was based on the CDR-200 instead?

The Yamaha CRW-2260 and CRW-4260 also use the same size firmware as the GD-writer, and appear to have a very similar bezel design aswell (although this could just be a coincidence)

Really? I cant seem to find that thread either. Do you have any idea what he actually did in order for it to read GD-Roms? Just curious if this switch is also present on the CDR-400t (wouldnt dare try it on an actual GD-writer)

Also, I would love to know if the firmware from an actual Dreamcast GD-Rom drive has ever been dumped? If not any idea why not? I would imagine someone must have tried to connect it up to a PC at some point (The Otti 9220 used in the drive apparently supports IDE according to here:-
http://web.archive.org/web/20031208162627/http://www2.mozcom.com/~sknkwrks/gdcontroller.html

Or has anyone tried to de-solder the chips to dump the firmware?

 

It's possible to rip many gd-roms with a pc Disc-Drive with minor tweaks.

Here's an english site with the info needed: http://stc.hacking-cult.org/gd-rom_stuff/

Here's a tutorial I wrote about it in french:
http://dreamagain.free.fr/layout.php?p=tutoGD

With all teh tools needed to rip your gd-rom:
http://dreamagain.free.fr/TUTOGD/ToolsTutoGD.rar


I presonally ripped many games this way including Toys Commander, Tony Hawks 2 and Ecco the Dolphin Defendre Of The Future. The trick is to get a good plextor drive (with gigarec) OR a lite-on ltd-165h (I got the lite-on) And to extract the disc in parts (from 45000 to 359999 then from 360000 to 549150; and then merge them) to have a 45000-549150 iso it's a bit different if the game got gdda tracks.

Feel free to ask question if you're lost !

I hope it helped !

FamilyGuy

[EDIT]

To answer some of your questions:

Yeah early versions of CDCRAFT (devkit cd/gd tool) got support for both the cdr400t to write data to cd-r or gd-writer to write data to gd-r. I don't think the unmodded cdr400t ever write a High density disc.

I do beleive that the cdr400t was the BASE tot he gd-writer but I don't think you could really turn a cdr400t into a gd-writer. THeir firmwares are of the same size, they're "compatible" but there should be some physical differences between the cdr400t and the gd-writer that makes it totally incapable to write on gd-r.

I can tell you it shows as a Sega GD-R 1999 (or 1998) and is recognized by CDCRAFT. I even started a burn test of game on a gd-r but it stopped working as soon as it should have switched to high density mode, thus why I think it's physically different.

"The switch" isn't present on the cdr400t.

Ps: most of that info is what I learned from testing with the cdr400t and devkit software documentation.

I hope it helped more !

FamilyGuy

 

Not here to support piracy,but I think at a time like this Just downloading the isos Would Seem pretty tasty.

Lol It just seems like So much work to get a original backup.

 

Thanks for the replies :icon_bigg

I am pleased you are here FamilyGuy - I have seen your name pop up everywhere when googling this subject - you seem to be very knowledgable on this matter :dance:

Thanks for the links aswell :nod:

I would love to compare the motherboards between the GD-Writer and the CDR-400t - to see what differences there are, as I have a feeling they are only very slight and could probably be replicated on the CDR-400t. I know you can often 'change' drives by just adding or removing a few components from the board and flashing another firmware. Did anybody save those pictures from Segakatana.com?

Out of curiousity can you use the Official Yamaha drive flashing utility to flash the GD-writer firmware to the CDR-400t, or do you have to use the utility Kalisto provided?

Since the Otti 9220 used in Dreamcast drives uses IDE if we could just get a schematic/pinout for the Otti 9220 maybe we could use that to connect up the DC's GD-Rom drive to a PC? With this in mind I have emailed 'Zoran Corporation' who bought out 'Oak Technologies' to see if they have any Oti 9220 documents they could send me - I will keep you updated if they reply.

The connector between the Dreamcasts GD-Rom drive and the board has 50 pins - some have to be for power, so could it be possible that it is just an IDE interface with power aswell? If so would there be anyway for us to work out the IDE pinout without a schematic?

Does the Oti 9220 chip store the drives firmware aswell? If so is there any other CD Drives that use the Oti 9220 chip? I was thinking that I could desolder the chip from a dreamcast GD-Rom drive and connect it up to a CD drive that used the same chip, then see if it can read GD-Roms. Even if it couldnt we may be able to dump the GD-Rom drives firmware which would be incredibly useful.

Another noteworthy thing pointed out to me was that the Naomi arcade system used a GD-Rom drive add-on, and it has and SCSI interface. Has anybody tried to connect it up to a PC and tried to read Dreamcast games? I know it wont read Naomi Arcade GD-Roms as you have to use an 'unlock chip key' aswell, but since Dreamcast games dont require this 'key' maybe it could read them? Would also be interesting so see pictures/scans of the board from the Naomi GD-Rom drive to see if we can apply its SCSI interface to the Dreamcast GD-Rom drive.

I know what you mean - but I am also interested in examining GD-Roms at the system level. I also have a number of 'White Label' Dreamcast games and would like to see if there are any differences between them and the retail versions. (I know they are mostly identical to the retail releases, but some are listed as 'betas' and it would just be interesting to see if theres any differences at all on the disks) Also, the whole thing just interests me greatly, and I would love to see GD-Roms be read easier by more people - especially now that it wont be affecting any software companies profit margins.

 

The linux kernel from version 2.6.25 onwards now has support for reading Dreamcast GD-ROMs.

 

It has support for the Dreamcast's GD-ROM drive for Dreamcast Linux.

Nothing to do with supporting GD-ROM reading on a PC.

 

Am I the only person to have hooked up my noami GD to PC via SCSI? I haven't done anything more than verify that it didn't work "out of the box", at least it was identified as a CD-ROM device under WinXP. None of the gd-rom rip guides seem to have explored this option..

 

I don't think many people have access to them, or did when the guides were written. It would be interesting to see what can be done with them. In theory it should be possible to figure out what scsi commands need to be sent by examining the naomi/triforce code.

Maybe you can talk tbminc into looking at it..

 

Sorry for my late reply on this, but I found this post quite interesting!
Do you know if it would be possible to extract the Naomi GD drives firmware via SCSI?

Also, I recently came across a picture of the HKT-0120 with built in GD-Rom drive:-

This is totally different drive to the HKT-04 GD-Writer - this drive only reads GD-Roms and doesnt write them (Or so i've read)

Apparently not all HKT-0120's have this 'built in GD-Rom drive'. It looks to be the same as a retail Dreamcasts GD-Rom assembly, does anyone know if it actually is?

If anyone has one of these units could they possibly tell us what connections/boards the GD-Rom drive unit has? Does it use an SCSI connection like the Naomi hardware? Where does it get its power? Pictures of the insides would be fantastic ;-)

Also, if someone with one of these dev units could see if it is possible to dump the GD-Roms drives firmware it would be very much appreciated :icon_bigg

 

I've never seen a HKT-0120 without GD-ROM. The laser module I belive is the compatible with regular Dreamcasts, but I haven't needed to test that theory yet.

It's not (unfortunately) attached via SCSI, but via a proprietary connections. One way or the other it's of course possible to dump the GD-ROM firmware, but there is no software included in the devkits for dumping.

There is software included for flashing the GDR and GDW if needed, so it would probably be less work to just get it from there.

Removed GDR as seen from below: (No, I didn't have one taken from the top.)


Assembled unit connections from the top:


The right PCB is just interconnect, the left is in turn connected to the C1/C2 card which is connected to the CPU board if I remeber correctly.

 

Thanks very much for those pictures :icon_bigg
It would have to be a custom connector! :crying:
Do you have any idea which SDK would have relevant files for flashing the GD-Rom drive? I have downloaded a few but im not sure if I would need to install them or not in order to browse through the files.
TIA ;-)

 

Well I havent given up on this yet!

If anybody has any close up pictures/scans of the boards used in the GD-Writer, internal GD-Rom drive, and the GDX duplicator it would be VERY much appreciated :icon_bigg

SegaKatana.com used to have some but the site has been down for quite a while now :crying:

I have been looking through the R9 and R10.1 SDK's and have found some firmware, but would love a few things clarifying if someone can help:-

GD WRITER (HKT-0400)
This firmware is called scsicom.bin, which seems straight forward enough

GDX DUPLICATOR
This firmware seems abit confusing - in the folder are four relevent file, the first two are:-
gx1_4_7c.fsh
gd1_4_7c.pad
Now I believe the first one is the actual firmware for the GDX duplicator, and the second one is just padding for the firmware upgrade disk, but heres where it gets confusing - what are these two files?:-
v147c_HD.bin
v147c_SD.bin
Both are 32kb in size - what are these for? :shrug:

GDM DRIVE?
Lastly, in the main utilities folder the documents make reference to a 'GDM drive'? I can only assume this is the GD-Rom drive used in the HKT-0120? The problem is in the same folder is also the firmware for the 'DA' and 'Boot ROM' Heres all the file names:-
btrf5011.bin
genie.fsh
gm2_9_1.fsh
Does anybody know which file is the firmware for the 'GDM' drive?

Thanks for any help :nod:

 

scsicom.bin -> Gd-writer BIOS


v147c_HD.bin
v147c_SD.bin

For both I'd check if it's a ip0000.bin (v147c_SD.bin) or ip.bin (v147c_HD.bin), the ip0000.bin contain data about the game that repeats 16 times.

The GD-ROM emulator in the hkt-0120 is called the "GD-M" it's a board that mimic a gd-rom from an HDD.

I hope it helped !

FG

 

I might have confused the firmware for GD-R and GDM. I'll have to recheck, and that will not be done for some time. I'll add it to the project list, but probably not before Christmas.