PS2 v3 not reading discs in vertical position

I have a PS2 (v3, SCPH-30004, KHS-400B) which reads discs almost perfectly when lying horizontal, but will not read discs when standing up. The disc is spinning and something makes a sort of whirring noise, I can't seem to find the source of the noise but i'll keep trying.

I've been trying the machine in different angles, it seems the breaking point when it stops recognizing the disc is already at 20-30 degrees from flat horizontal.

The laser has previously had problems reading discs (click,click,click) but I noticed the lens was very dirty. I gently whiped off the top lense with a cotton swab, and since then it's been reading everything - extremely scratched discs, new discs, CD-A/DVD/PS1/PS2 - without complaining, but only in horizontal mode.

Have anyone experienced this before?

 

Lens arm probably? They are made out of plastic in early models and become dirty/weared over time. Bad lens arm -> Laser head slips -> Sled motor makes whirring noise. Try to run PS2 without DVD drive cover and see what exactly wrong with it.

 

Thanks, I was thinking about that one, but now I'm confused... I have tried several other discs now and get different issues with every disc... :/ All the discs works when lying flat, but in vertical mode most of them work a lot worse. CD-A works perfectly, a DVD movie has the laser make a single loud click noise at different times before reading the disc, and 2 different PS2 games makes the whirring sound. This is all discs that works when the machine lies flat.

Sounds like the laser to me? I just have a theory that the plastic disc that presses the disc against the hub does not press it firmly enough, and maybe it makes it wobble just enough to make it harder to read when gravity isn't help keeping it flat...

 

Well, if sled motor is not a problem, then its probably bad spindle motor. If disc goes up and down (but not too much) that's okay, focusing system can deal with that. However, tracking system is a lot more picky, and if disc goes from side to side laser head will be making whirring sound (tracking coils going crazy) and clicking sound (focusing system trying to re-focus after loosing track completely). That also explains why CD's work better - they have thicker data tracks.

 

Not really offering any advise on your problem but if you decide to split the unit I would be interested in the power supply :encouragement:

 

Thanks! The hub motor/tracking coil explanation makes sense. I might add though that this whirring seems to happen at a specific point during the disc "detection", after it succeeds (after a few attempts = it seems to work ok).
However, I actually have a second, busted v3 with a laser that also works but is in worse condition (takes a long time to read discs etc). I will first try the entire second assembly and see if it's equally bad when horizontal and vertical, if it is, I'll put back the original assembly but replace individual parts from the second assembly, starting with the hub motor, then the worm motor.
Just so damn tedious, have to detach the drive it form the mainboard etc to reach this, I'm starting to hade fiddling with PS2s

Will update when I have tried this!

 

Sorry mate, I'm determined to get this one going, and the second v3 that I mentioned, I will probably sell/donate but it is missing the PSU (as well as many other parts)...

 

Check if the tabs that hold the optical pickup black cover are not broken. If the cover is loose it could come in contact with the disc, cause massive circular scratches and have the effect you described (as it would not have the help of gravity pushing it down to keep it in place.

 

Thanks, I'll double check it but I don't think this is not the problem, my first thought was that something was scratching the disc so it was the first thing I checked: I have removed the disc tray, so I can clearly see that nothing (neither the lens nor the plastic cover) is touching the disc while the noise is happening and there are no scratches on the discs...


I think I may have forgotten to say that basically, the machine will *eventually* read the discs in vertical position but it takes a lot longer and it does those different noises (depending on disc) before eventually succeeding.

I can also clearify that the more the machine is leaning, the more difficult it is to read the disc. 0 degrees (horizontal) = reads disc immediatelly 100% of the time. 90 degrees (vertical) = vrrrr, clicks etc only reads the disc "quickly" maybe 10% of the times, but letting the machine work for a while and eventually it will usually read the disc. In the angles between, the problems starts at maybe 20-30 degrees when most of the machine are still pulled "downward" rather than "sideways" by good ol' gravity, and the more vertical it gets, the more likely are the issues to happen. Seems to increase pretty linearly...

That somehow the tracking fails seems to be the most likely, the noise is kind of weird (I don't know what kind of noise normal tracking does) but it sort of sounds like something small is vibrating Note that the "vrrrrr" problem happens soon *after* the machine has focus, and *before* the laser start moving around all over the disc. Also, note that during the "vrrr" sound, the worm motor slowly (in small steps) move the laser outwards from the starting position (were it focused), in total maybe 1 mm, then "resets" (move the laser back to "home", then back out to the starting position) and does the same over and over again until it succeeds, so it does look a lot like its struggling to lock on to a track.

The loud click problem seems a lot more random, and its so loud so it's really scary. :/ (I have another machine that does the same noise, that one actually scratches the disc when that click is happening, probably it's calibration gears are screwed up (no pun intended...) But that one is a problem for another day... ) I noticed that the click is caused by lens moving to the max extended position, *very* quickly. (The click is a lot louder than the one made when the laser is normally focusing).

But I'm probably wasting your time until I have tried the other drive assembly...

 

"vrrr" sound does sound like the plastic actuator (rack) is slipping through the axis of the worm drive motor (sled/tracking actuator).

So my suggestion now is you disassembly the black screw that hold two metal shaft where the laser travels through.
Clean it throughly and if you can, also clean and polish the inside of the hole in the laser. Grease it properly upon reassembly.

Also while at it inspect if the nylon rack part is damaged. If it has a round hole on the two teeth that connect to the worm drive screw, it is damaged and need to be replaced. Hopefully this will be your issue.

 

Sorry, that's not it either, I can see that the plastic arm is not slipping - MAYBE it is pressing too hard against the gear so that it can't move, but it's definitly not slipping... Also, I've recently cleaned and reapplied grease to all the gears and such, pretty much the way you describe.

I have just now mounted the second drive into the machine. The laser in this assembly struggles a lot more to read discs than the first one (it stops and "re-spins" the disc several time before reading it), but it does read them almost exactly equally shitty in both horizontal and vertical, no "vrrrr" noise at all.

I'm now going to simply take the first laser and put it into this second assembly, and see if the vrrrring starts... In that case it must be the laser being bad...

 

Well, the issue is down to either being the laser, or the plastic arm.

Laser #1 + plastic arm #1 + rest of the optical drive #1 = perfect horizontal, reading problems when vertical (vrrr or CLICK)
Laser #2 + plastic arm #2 + rest of the optical drive #2 = struggles a bit in both horizontal and vertical, no vrrrr
Laser #1 + plastic arm #1 + rest of the optical drive #2 = perfect horizontal, reading problems when vertical (vrrr or CLICK)

guess I'll try swap the plastic arms just to rule that one out as well... brb

EDIT/NOTE: in all cases I use the same driver board (the one with 2x BAxxx-chips)

 

what... the... fuck...

so I confirmed that I got both the CLICKs on the scratched DVD movie and "vrrrr" on a PS2 game as I mentioned before posting the previous post. Then I figured, before i take thinks apart again, I should record the problem and put it on youtube or something so you can see/hear it instead of my bad descriptions. Of course, now the problem doesn't happen any more, like, at all. What the hell? Everything I throw at it works with not much trouble at all. I'm baffled.

Any ideas? One theory is that maybe the machine decided it's time for a Diagnosis (if I got it right it does one automatically now and then?) and that managed to set things straight. Or maybe more probable, something else fell in place. Which I don't like because maybe it falls out of place again :/

EDIT: the vrrrrr returned, but only once out of like 15 tests with different discs and positions. This is annoying

EDIT #2: The problem still happens very rarely, not more often than some other signs that the laser is simply getting old, and after all there are never "disc read error"s or scratched discs or such so as long as the error doesn't come back I guess I'll consider myself done... Very annoying not knowing what caused it or whether it may become worse again or not though :/ If anyone has an idea I appreciate it, otherwise I'll put back the original drive tomorrow and test it thoroughly and hope it doesn't get worse again...

 

Dude I gave you the solution. It's a mechanical problem. Which you partially solved from disassembling and re-assembling.

The problem won't go away without you clean THROUGHLY the shaft where the laser travels on and from replacing the nylon rack part. It's getting stuck while moving and that's what makes the "VRR" noise (rack is jumping out from the spiral at the worm screw from the sled motor).

I also remember telling you to put grease on the shaft. That's the only thing that will fix your console permanently.

 

I'm sorry if it sounded like I ignored your advice, but like I said, when the tray was removed, I could see the laser, the arm and the wormgear under the disc with my naked eye, and I could see that the arm was definitly *not* jumping while the noise is happening. Further, from start to end of this "vrrr" noise, I could clearly see that the worm gear only rotated in very small iterations, and in total only about 1 or 2 revolutions (moving the laser maybe 1mm or so), and the small iterations were less frequent than the "ticks" being the noise - i.e, basically, there was still "rrrr" noise while the gear *was not moving*! The arm *may* have pressed the gear too hard so the gear couldn't move, but I am very sure that the arm was not jumping. Also note that I did recently clean and grease all the gears and shafts EDIT: (and applied some more grease was the first thing I tried, I too suspected these gears first before I looked closer)

Again, I thank you for your advice and I really don't want to sound ungreatful! I really wish I had recorded the error while it happened, I'm sure you'd agree that there is something else going on if you could see/hear the issue yourself Lessen learned, next time I'm asking for help I'll first making a video before anything else


I have now put together the best functioning parts - basically, the only difference from the last configuration, is that now also the laser arm is from the second drive. I will test this combination until I am confident that it is reliable and consistent in both positions. If the problem ever comes back, I'll make a video of it immediatelly!

 

One thing I did not comment, the worm gear is driven by a stepper motor and if any connection is bad from the said stepper motor to the driver chip (BA5810 on your case) or the control lines from the driver chip to the mechacon chip on the PS2 main board (the large flatcable) could cause that stepper motor to not be able to properly step on one or the other direction. When that happens it just "vibrates" like a "speaker" so you get a "vrrrrrr" noise too(a different timbre but not something you can explain by text).

I kind of have a "educated guess" about what is going on with your console.

That model has a problem which happens when it's assembled without thermal pads on top of the mechanism driver chips. They overheat in a way that is not enough to trip their thermal protection or cause short term damage, but that cause long term damage where solder joints start to crack all over the DVD drive frontend board. I've repaired many units with this fault and I do believe lots of units failed this way and ended junked because people would not understand the fault.

This fault is also common on the earlier models GH-004 and GH-005 ("V1" and "V2") but on their case, it's the big 208 pins chip (CDVD DSP) which suffers, as it's squeezed on the motherboard by a heat transfer pad under the heatsink.

If your fault is of electrical origins it can be intermittent and you can be certain it will come back to annoy you.

 

Thanks, that does open up a new can of worms

What you describe would make a lot of puzzle pieces fit in place (when I got the machine, the thermal pads on the two BA chips may indeed have been missing - I have covered them with a new pad now though).

However - when I listened where to sound came from, I did hear that it did *not* come from the actual worm motor itself - it definitly came from underneath the disc...

But still, maybe it has bad joints I did check the history of this machine, and it goes something like this:
I got the laser in this machine. It read DVDs, but not CDs (not sure how, I *think* it was some sort of complete refusal to read the disc, like click-click-click-click failing to focus or something like that)
I moved the laser temporarily to another machine. It read both DVDs and CDs in that machine. Concluded the laser must be ok but that the driver board must be bad.
I put it back in this machine, but now it read both DVDs and CDs fine and has done so ever since (apart from the issues described here). Then I sort of forgot about it, I only though that either a BA chips are blown or either they work perfectly. Which I realize now is not true of course. I did do several other things with the machine though (cleaned it, greased it, swapped other parts) and I'm not sure exactly how I tested it though so it MIGHT have been something else that cause CDs to not work long time ago. Damn

To be safe, I guess I should look for cracked joints though... I do have a 60-100x microscope, can a n00b like me easily see a cracked joint with that? Or maybe even with naked eye? Any particular areas to start look at? The board is a GM-043 and it has a BA6664FM and a BA5815FM chip. Is the cracks expected to be in the vicinity of these chips or can they be all over the board?

Thanks again!

 

I'm positive that system should have a BA5810, not 5815 chip in it. They're not 100% identical and the mechanics controller chip on your console is programmed to use the BA5810, not 5815. That alone could be a source of trouble with discs not reading correctly.

This is a picture of a scrapped GM-043 board from my parts bin for you to see:


Another issue you might not be aware of is that sometimes SONY technicians would connect the consoles to a jig at the service center and then change the internal adjustments (on the mechanics controller eeprom) so it can work with a out of specs optical pickup. If a console is adjusted in such a way it will fail with pickups that are within the "reasonable" range for factory adjustments.

There's no way of reseting these settings besides using something like "lenschanger". Lenschanger is not the perfect solution, but is the solution for a problem which otherwise would have no solution at all.

What you can do with lenschanger is, after you backup the unit's eeprom (with buttons R1 or R2) is select the 400B lens and press the circle (or square, I don't remember which) button and choose one of the three options it offers. It has three sets of "settings" for each model in it's DB. They can reset the unit to a state where your replacement laser could work for both CD and DVD media.

Remember, the settings of EEPROM are set up on the factory for a reasonable range, but a service technician could "finetune" so a semi worn laser would work again as if it was new. The colateral would be that if the laser were to be replaced, the JIG adjust would be required yet again.

 

Thanks, lots of usefull info here!

I am pretty sure that the chip was actually 15, not 10. I have two different v3s, and I wrote down all the numbers of both of them of this board, and I did notice their differences. The board in the OTHER machine looks exactly like the one on your picture and has a "10" chip, however its busted for sure, one component literaly has fallen off (at the top of the board, it seems to be missing on your picture as well) and the little 3-pin thing above the 6664 has disintegrated! However, the board in my almost-working machine has the same model no (GM-043), same solder pads, same printed text, but different components mounted on it... I am absolutely certain the chip is 15 instead of 10 and I noted that many of the smaller compents, particularly those between the two BA chips, are completely different. (Many of the unused solder pads between the BA chips on your board, they are used on this one, and the other way around). I'll take a picture when I open the machine again!

I have used lenschanger many times, I always run it when I change laser models (B/C/HD7)... I think it is possible I *might* have ran lenschanger and forgotten about it, or that I *might* have swapped around components (I've previously had a third v3), and this *may* have accidentally fixed the problem that CDs didn't work a long time ago... It's also possible that flashing the eeprom or replacing components would improve the performance of the laser... But currently, it reads DVDs and CDs so well that I don't think its worth the risk of making it worse trying to improve it... What worries me is if the two errors that randomly dissappeared (not reading CDs / noise in vertical position) will randomly come back in the future... I assume that firmware/component compatibility issues would not go away by themselves?

So I think bad solder is still the most likely culprit? n00b as I am, can cracked solder joints be seen by an untrained eye or microscope or am I wasting my time looking for them?

 

Just use it normally and only worry if it stops working. Glad to hear everything is alright.