ASSEMbler recently made a fairly major change to policy on the boards, specifically the decision to allow people to include warezed/pirated copies of current SDK software as part of a sale so long as the copy was denoted as a "gift." Personally I think this is a bad decision for the site as a whole, as one of the key draws to ASSEMbler is that the site has always taken a strong stand against outright piracy in the past, recognizing the difference between a collectible and a piece of warez. ASSEMbler always rejected the latter. I originally posted my concerns as a reply to ASSEMbler's policy change post in MTWomg's sale thread, but since MTWomg requested that discussion not occur in the sale thread I've posted the query here as per his request. For those interested, the original sale thread (Microsoft Xbox XDK hardware + backup copy of SDK software) is here: http://assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24104 The specific policy change that concerns me is: My concerns as posted in the original thread are: Ultimately I believe this is a very poor change to make to the site. If someone is selling a warezed/pirated copy of software we shouldn't be allowing it on ASSEMbler even if it is bundled with hardware. It really is no different that allowing someone to sell a game system bundled with a collection of "backup" games that are given "free." I'd love to hear the reasoning from ASSEMbler and the mods as to why this policy change was implemented, but since this is now a thread of its own it would also be good to hear what other members think. -hl718
We never allow copies, they have to be REAL. We do not allow the sale of REAL current SDK either. We never allowed sale of real / copied sdk. REAL sdk can be given COPIED sdk cannot be given Why would I say it's ok to give copies? I never said copies. All I said was the SDK cannot be sold, but is only a gift. We do not support piracy here. Clear?
Ah, the misunderstanding arose because I the first time the thread had been posted I was interested in purchasing the system so I asked the seller to included photos of the SDK discs. The seller's reply stated that there were no original discs included as he only had a downloaded copy of the SDK. After that the original thread disappeared (I had assumed because of the copied SDK) only to be newly posted along with your comment about giving SDKs as a gift. Since the original poster had already stated that he did not have original discs for the SDK, I took the reposting of the thread and your note about the rules change to mean that the site was now condoning the transfer of copied SDKs. I apologize for the misunderstanding. -hl718
Well I never though someone would have the balls to try and pass off fake sdk in a sale. I think we should clarify the rules.
Photos are probably the simplest solution. If somebody wants to include a copy of a SDK in a sale, they need to include photos of the original disc. Given the variety of members here, I'd venture a guess that any counterfit discs would be called out immediately. If someone can't/won't post a photo of their disc, then you know it's not original. -hl718
For the record, nothing changes. If someone buys a kit from me, they get the tools they need to make use of it.
Ofcource most of the time it's illegal to sell the SDK anyway, but do note the SDKs don't necessarily come on official media. Some are just digitally distributed with the developers.
Hmm, isn't it prohibited to give the SDK out at all, no matter on what kind of media? Thinking of NDAs and the such. Well, most of us are not bound by a NDA since not being an officially reg'ed dev, but still, that doesn't make copies (on original media or not) of SDK legit IMHO as people not having signed the NDA are not supposed to have it in the first place.... Unfortunately most of the dev HW is close to useless w/o the SDKs, esp. if your intention really is to code a bit on it and not just run "backups".... so everyone will still be hunting for those.... Just thinking out loud here....
I think we need to avoid any legal issues with the current sdk. We all know once a system is dead they could care less about the tools. People can do whatever they like via pm, but the site can't be part of any piracy. We have a comfortable gentlemen's agreement with people to not step over the invisible line.
So, no mentioning of the SDKs of current systems (in public). But older ones ore OK (as long as they are no "backup" copies) as the system is "dead" anyway and the original creator doesn't care about it that much anymore.... Yes, that makes sense, thanks for clearing up
I just read the thread about the microsoft forum closing, and a bunch of your posts in that forum. Its mine boggling how you haven't been banned yet.
Much more so as to how you haven't been banned yet. Digging up an old thread purely to make personal attacks is unacceptable by any standard.
I can understand for the tools of old, abandoned systems, since basically all they can be used for, is playing/messing with or programming for a dead system. I can understand for the tools of new, current systems, since the companies are still makeing profit from it. But what about unreleased games & other material ? To be consequent & avoid any legal issues, I would prohibit people to distribute these stuff... They are still copyrighted, and it's not because it wasn't released on dead platform X, that nobody will ever release it on current/next platform Y... (especially with the virtual consoles trend of the last years...)
guys, this whole thread and discussion is completely pointless. whoever is selling any (current gen) dev hardware is breaking like 1000 rules anyway, most dev hw comes with contracts that explicitly forbids selling it, and i guess most of the test/debug stations that pop up on the market are not exactly from chapter 11 companies either. for xbox360, the software is almost all the time obtained by downloading it from microsoft, so there is never a "original" version of the sdk... is it considered to be a "copy" if its downloaded of ms and put on a recordable dvd like most official devs do it? i think this should just not be talked about in public... if the seller has access to the sdk, it makes sense to give it with the kits, since without it the kits are useless. (and especially for 360, they are on the torrent sites anyway). also, the firmware in the dev machines is usually covered under the same rules as the sdk software part, so there is no real difference between the two. selling this kind of stuff (dev hw) always is at least legally "questionable", and i think we all know that.
