Question to Saturn FDD user (floppy partitioning related)

I'm currently making a backup data manager .
(This is very similar to Rockin-B's Save Game Manager, but SGL-free, and I plan to add some extra features too)

And, I would like to know how works FDD partition works.
-> According to Sega Backup library API, it is possible to specify a partition ID to BUP_SelPart function in order to read/write backup data, but the details about this feature are unclear.

Well, first, is there somebody using partitioned floppy to store data ?
In Save Game Manager, only first partition is used, so I suppose nobody use floppy partitioning, but in the case somebody use this feature (and find it useful), some beta testing regarding this feature would be very helpful.
(in the case somebody want to help in testing : Saturn + FDD is required for testing, no modchip needed)


Edit : I would also help me if someone could post the contents of a Floppy used by Saturn FDD. If contents is not too complex (= standard file system readable on PC), I can add a "import from FDD" feature to my utility.

 

How are you accessing the BUP library? Doesn't it get stored at the start of H-WRAM?

 

I use standard entry points, defined in SEGA_BUP.h file.

 

Entirely off-topic but i was thinking, if there was ever an Commodore Amiga 500 emulator for the Sega Saturn.. is it possible to implement the FDD attachment so users are able to insert they're own floopy disk Amiga games on the Saturn and then run it through the emu without needing to have roms on the CD as an optional feature?

 

x

 

The FDD API doesn't list a low level access to floppy sectors : only backup data-oriented functions are available for use on Saturn side.
Hence, developing floppy access for things other than backup data is :
- difficult and costly, because it requires more reverse engineering of FDD in order to to find low level floppy sector access functions ... and it requires to buy a $100-ish FDD for reverse engineering too.
- (probably) impossible, in the case low level floppy sector access functions are not available.

It is the matter of 5 minutes of coding, and of course it will be added

 

I do have a floppy.
I believe that partitions may match sides.
Even thru the FDD Operator disk the 2 sides are handled separately (there's a separate screen for each side).
I only used it by formatting it and then use the FDD Operator to copy saves from Sat/MemCard to FDD and the other way around.
Dezaemon 2 and Azel/PDS Rpg access it directly, Dezaemon can even format it, PDS only access a formatted one, both of them are limited to 1 side (if memory serves).

 

Thank you phoenixdownita
So second side/partition support is not really needed : I removed everything related to partition, and thanks to this, source code is now easier to maintain :]

Just another question : can you read contents of Saturn floppy on PC ?

 

Off-Topic:

A new save manager is cool and I liked your work, but I thing using check boxes could work even better than turn letters green (just looking to the screenshots you posted mess with my sights... too bright... )... Could be cool add an option allowing do compress and divide the saves in parts to transfer huge files (like Sega Rally's Ghost Files, or Fantasy Zone's replay files) from a backup cartridge to another. And, if possible, add something allowing this homebrew to interact with the USB Datalink...

By the way, what I was really waiting is as SegaSaturn Save Manager for PC, featuring functions to allow to convert saves from an emulator format to another, and extract individual saves to files.

Please, keep going with this amazing work...

 

x

 

WOW!! That's amazing... Er... A little. An english translation could be nice... I'll have to dig some of my japanese knowledge after I set my Windows to show japanese characters... Anyway, I'll give a shot when I get an opportunity... Thanx for the tip, Druid II. ^_^

 

x

 

I have the Sega Saturn Floppy drive and have used the Rockin-B save manager to format a disk in it as I couldn't understand how to use the Japanese Boot CD for managing the drive. Although the Saturn drive can read it, a PC drive cannot. Even raw copying won't work, it appears to use an unconventional format for writing to the disk in a way that a PC cannot even attempt to read it. I would very much welcome a save manager like the one you're developing but I am unsure how to proceed. Any software I use, be it PowerISO, Rawcopy, all fail and say the disk has to be formatted first when attempting to access it on a PC floppy drive (connected via USB). Yet the disk works fine when in the Saturn Floppy Drive and I have played Panzer Dragoon Saga with it. That game is one of the few to support directly saving to floppy as well. If you know any way I can force raw reading of the disk sectors (that may well be the problem if it's formatted in a way that PC doesn't understand the sectors) please let me know and I will gladly upload the contents of my floppy disk in an image format.

 

Wait... The non-Japanese versions of Panzer Dragoon RPG / Saga can recognize the Saturn Floppy Drive? THIS ARTICLE from SegaRetro said just the japanese version do this... Please, confirm...

 

All versions of PDS support floppy and mem card.

http://www.thewilloftheancients.com/encyclopaedia/panzer-dragoon-saga-ntsc-version
http://www.thewilloftheancients.com/encyclopaedia/panzer-dragoon-saga-pal-version

I did all the testing, each version can read and write each other files, the PAL demo disk 1 can be used in the mix as well with no issue.

 

well removing support for the second side is a little of a bummer, I don't like totally the FDD operator being only Jap, although given the options presented on the screen are in the same order as the English menu for the Mem Cart just on a green background, it is not too bad.

Once you fix one side support maybe you can add the second.

Also when I said that partitions=sides it is my speculation, I have no proof about it and the FDD Operator does not have "partitions" options per se that I can tell (but then again I can't read Jap), but it does present the 2 sides on separate screens to perform delete/clear/format.

It'll be cool if someone would just translate the FDD Operator disk menu options in English, although itself does not work when loaded with Pseudo, someone with the right knowledge should look into that ;-)

Regarding reading a Sat floppy I am not sure, it is possible that it uses different MFM values, I do have an USB floppy that can read FM Towns floppy for example (mode3), but without knowing the parameters to set it it may be hard (/a:1024 /t:77 /n:8 are used for Mode3 for example).

I may give it a shoot with DiskImage 13b various options to see what I get when I have a sec, if I get something I'll post it here.

EDIT: no dice, it does not appear to be a simple mode3 FAT floppy.

 

Thank you for the suggestion ... please don't trust my graphical tastes
I will add checkbox-like stuff when main features will be more terminated.

I'm preparing things for this, but this will be in the next project, so not in a near future. Please be patient, and don't format your cartridge(s) until this time

I'm thinking about importing/exporting saves from/to SSF/yabause(= same format as DataLink's), but not interacting with DataLink itself.

This will be available on Saturn side.

Thank you for the tool. Unfortunately, source code is not available :/

OK, thank you for the informations. If this is not possible to dump on PC, then I will make it possible to copy directly on Saturn.
The fact that Save Game Manager worked fine helps a lot, because sources for this utility are available (Thank you Rockin-B :]).

Well, if it is not possible/easy to dump on PC, let's give up this way of doing.
I suppose that USB FDD don't support enough raw copy to read your Saturn disk ... maybe using a vintage PC with Windows 95 may do the job, but it is nonsense to use such things.

I removed the 2nd side support from regular features, I didn't said that I will remove this feature completely
I plan to support multiple partitions in import/export features.

FDD operator is closed-source (and copyrighted by Sega too), so modifying it is not an easy job. Making a new utility from scratch + reading Save Game Manager sources would be easier I think.

 

x

 

I have some experience with save file format, but reading the utility source code would save some time when implementing import/export feature.
(why people publicly release free software, but keep source code private ???)

 

Ok... Let me to it in parts.

1. Druid II
   
   Your tip about translating the GUI texts in SSBKM was super nice. Thanx a lot!! ^_^
   
   
   
   
2. cafealpha2
   
   I was testing the SSBKM and there's something super cool. When you open a backup file extracted from the SegaSaturn, the program give an option asking if you want or not restore deleted files (note: it don't work in save files from emulators). Is it possible to add an option to search and restore deleted saves in your backup data manager?
   
   Another cool thing in the SSBKM is this program shows how the data (or "Blocks", if your prefer this way) are distributed in the save file in a grid, like a Defrag program (even more: It identifies to which save belongs each block). So, I was thinking could be nice if your backup data manager could have a Defrag option to organize the saves as shown in the SSBKM.