RGB/Scart CRT-TVs for people in the US

Discussion in 'Off Topic Discussion' started by Arcade, Aug 17, 2012.

  1. retro

    retro Resigned from mod duty 15 March 2018

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    I'm not sure what data I have on GVMs - I'll have to have a dig through my storage sometime... but in theory, sure!

    PVMs are workhorses and they can be a bit knackered. However, they're usually fixable - it all depends on the fault. You're better off with one that's been in a school or social club (the large ones) than an ex broadcast one, probably. Being able to look at it is certainly an advantage.

    Hmm, well an average arcade monitor would be a Hantarex 9000 or 900E (both from the early 1980s) or a Hantarex Polo (from the early 1990s). Certainly not the dual sync Japanese beasts. They're certainly comparable to a lot of PVM monitors. Oh, and Hantarex did enclosed monitors, too - such as the stackable video walls.

    Anyway, the PVMs are usually PAL/NTSC compatible and of course will accept the signal from older, non-RGB consoles without the need for modification or external converters. Arcade monitors also require a separate PSU and isolation transformer, plus a suitable enclosure built... so for many, they're not worth it. And shipping them is a nightmare... so Calpis, your argument about having to find one locally or pay a fortune for shipping is even more the case for your beloved arcade monitors, wouldn't you say? ;)
     
  2. Calpis

    Calpis Champion of the Forum

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    The only PVMs of real quality today are the very last high-res ones with very fine dot pitches and self-calibration. These high performing PVM are still very expensive ($1.5k+), or at least were until very recently because at the moment there are unprecedentedly cheap 20L5 on eBay.

    Arcade CRT monitors are now discontinued so they'll be more difficult to find, but not too long ago you could get large (25"+) name-brand monitors easily, inexpensively, brand new, including tri-sync monitors. I'm not thinking about 80s monitors, the "average" monitor depends on location and game. In Japan all cabs are fitted with newish monitors (they were already retrofitting LCDs back in 2003-2004), even for 80s games. In the US it's rare to find arcade games now, but if you do the only place you'll possibly find an 80s monitor is in a forgotten un-restored 80s game. You're far more likely to see high-resolution American football, golf, deer hunting or Ultracade (emulation) cabs. Anyways, these late 90s/early 2000s monitors assuming they can display 15 kHz, really outshine the typical PVM-2030/2530 in everything but possibly color accuracy (once calibrated).

    Late PVM pros:

    -Color accuracy
    -Dot pitch
    -Self-servicing (somewhat)
    -Y'PbPr input

    Late PVM cons:

    -Price
    -Either small or very heavy
    -Very high integration so hard to service in the future
    -Low bandwidth
    -Not forgiving with deviant signals


    Late arcade monitor pros:

    -Inexpensive
    -Tri-sync
    -Large and lightweight
    -Serviceable (generally off-the-shelf parts and schematics available)
    -High bandwidth
    -Direct electrical compatibility with hundreds if not thousands of non-75 ohm arcade boards
    -No extraneous features
    -100% analog signal path

    Late arcade monitor cons:

    -Needs enclosure
    -Worse dot pitch than Sony's best tubes, of course
     
  3. retro

    retro Resigned from mod duty 15 March 2018

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    I wouldn't agree with your lists, there. For example, the late PVMs are 16:9 switchable, NTSC/PAL compatible (good if you do want to connect an s-video/composite console... which again IS a plus technically, albeit not a great one! lol). And again, the external PSU and isolation transformer needed is a minus for the arcade monitors. And the arcade machines are end of life now - Hantarex aren't stocking any spares, Eizo don't care about the old Nanao monitors, so eventually we'll find that supplies of chassis and LOPTs dry up.

    Another issue is that some of the best (e.g. the Nanao MS-2931) are very rare and, therefore, expensive. And they, too, are heavy. I believe the MS-2931 is about 40kg. Granted, the PVM-2950QM is more like 52kg, but then it has a (large) case and extra parts, so it's not surprising. Saying the weight of a PVM is a downside is ridiculous, though... the arcade monitors are equally weighty and even more delicate when moving and shipping.

    Colour temperature is certainly more accurate on the PVMs, but that's not going to interest us in gaming, really!

    All in all, they're much of a muchness, but the PVM is still an excellent choice for gaming. I for one prefer the lower dot pitch - never was a fan of arcade monitors in that respect. Again, one day I'll get round to doing a side-by-side test.

    *EDIT*

    Of course, if you have reason to use medium resolution as well, then it makes sense to go the arcade route! ;)
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2012
  4. APE

    APE Site Supporter 2015

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    What time frame are we referring to as "late"? I've got one from 1995, ~8", and another from 1996, 20", that I scored for $25 total. Granted the owner just wanted to get rid of them and I was able to pick them up more/less locally.

    The smaller seems to produce a better picture but when I use them I tend to be up close as of late for testing purposes.
     
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