Saturn devollopers CD-R

How Saturn game dev make theirs pre release of game ? Special CD-R like RVT-R ? Special burners ?

 

CD-R. Nothing special about it (although yes, primarily Sega branded CD-R and modified BIOS on the Yamaha writer). You still needed the boot CD to load it past the protection.

 

Precisely, the protection. Yamaha writer can burn the protection ring of Saturn CD.

Developers did they must have to swap between boot CD and CD-R game ?

 

Dev system came with the system disc so all you have to do is boot with the system disc and swap with the CD-R...

 

Nothing burns the Saturn track, and nothing ever will. Making a homebrew CD to boot on an unmodified retail Saturn with no swapping is impossible.

 

Hum, hum, but how is write this track ?

 

Which track are you talking about?

If you mean the Saturn protection ring, forget it. You will never be able to forge that.

The original method of writing CD-Rs was to use the JVC VCD card, Yamaha burner with modified BIOS and the segacdw tool. The Mirage, on the other hand, had writing support built into its firmware.

The disc complies to Semi CD-ROM XA standard (as well as Red Book and Yellow Book). Don't use multisession. Start LSN is 2 seconds, end LSN 63 mins.

There's a lil useless info on the disc standard for ya ;-) The Sega Disc Format Standards Specification Sheet has more info.

 

if you are interested in the security ring have a look at this forum...

link

 

Oh thank. I already know this thread. Boot CD is a crazy method for developers to test thiers program. It's not very reliable. Someone can dump special Yamaha firmware from Saturn devkit ?

 

Me thinks you don't have that much experience with game dev if you think that using a boot CD is "unreliable."

The System Disc method used by Sega was actually very efficient, easy to use and quite reliable, I really wish other companies would have used it.

And retro is correct. The Yamaha writer won't burn the security track. It'll just burn game data to the disc -- exactly like any other CD-R writer.

-hl718

 

Huumm... and Sony with PS1 devkit ? It don't need any boot CD ? :noooo:

OK. So, why make special CD-R writer, with specific BIOS for only write normal CD ? Sega's guys have time to waste ? (no irony, just a question)

 

I believe when the game is gold the publisher sent the master to Sega and it's pressed into the especial disc that had the security ring already on it...

I've gotten SEGA Branded CD-R master but from what I was told it's just plain old CD-R with no security ring on it...

for the use of boot disc, guess different companies do thing differently.
Sega also used the boot disc with the Dreamcast so maybe Sega preferred the usage of boot disc whereas SONY simply disabled the media/region checking for the dev testing purpose...

 

It was a cheap method. Those Playstations were probably even more than a retail unit. Sega's method was useable on a standard retail unit. Therefore, you could (in theory) buy ONE disc and use it on 20 consoles.

There was the dongle protection on Playstation, too. I think it was used mainly to give out demos? The game came on CD, but you needed the memory card dongle to play it.

 

Dr. Wily,

AFAIK the 1st generation Target Box developer Saturns have a different ROM BIOS and don't require the system disc. Check out page 5:
http://www.antime.org/sega/files/ST-079B-R3-011895.pdf.bz2

All other developer Saturns need the system disc to officially support CD-Rs. The system discs are very easy to use:
http://assemblergames.com/forums/showpost.php?p=164120&postcount=11

Could special CD-Writer firmware make it possible to burn the security ring? That *might* very well be possible. Check out Pinchy's thread:
http://forums.segaxtreme.net/showthread.php?t=14769

CF

 

x

 

No, forever. PHYSICALLY impossible. Trust me.

 

Stupid question: Why do you think it is physically impossible?

I'm sure you're right, since so many have tried. But I don't see any i.e. ATIP type protection, and Pinchy's half working CD makes me think it might be possible with custom firmware.

CF

 

Why a system with a special BIOS?

You have to remember, back then pretty much all CD-R drives had a "special" BIOS. CD-R was NOT common and you couldn't just assume that a given mastering program would work with a given drive.

The "required" drive was simply one that would work with the development tools.

Today CD-R drives are commodity and a dime a dozen. Burning programs pretty much support any old drive. Back then it was way different.

As for the discs, no none of the Saturn CD-Rs can boot by themselves in a retail machine. Trust me, I've got a stack of the things here. They all need System Disc CDs.

-hl718

 

Hey hl718,

I agree with everything you just wrote

If it is my previous post you're replying to, I am not talking about the Yamaha writer firmware, or any other official firmware.

But could a Saturn CD be copied onto a CD-R in theory? Or is there information used in the protection that can't be copied, such as ATIP information and such? I don't know. Therefore it is hard for me to says if it is possible to copy a Saturn CD with a custom CD-R writer. Is the protection at frame level, EFM level or just simply "out of band"?

I find it very interested that Pinchy can most of a Saturn CD onto a CD-R, and that his custom modchip just has to patch 1 byte on the cd-to-motherboard communication channel for the CD-R to boot....

CF

 

A Saturn CD can be copied, sure. You'd need a boot CD or chipped Saturn to run it, though (or do the swap trick).

Saturn CDs have a special "track" on the othside for copy protection. The Saturn checks that before booting the game. This track is not, and cannot be written in a standard CD Writer. It is more like a barcode. To copy it, you would have to physically analyze the track, work out how to reproduce it, and then manufacture your own CDs WITH a perfect copy of this track. The cost would be immense. Oh, and Sega would probably sue you!

How do I know? Well, common sense! That, and I've seen internal documentation from the original designers ;-)