Saturn SCSI - need cable

Thanks for the info. I'll have a crack at making one of the sockets I obtained into a connector for the Sophia. If I can make it work, and there are a few other people interested, I could make up an extra cable or two for other people who are stuck with this. If the cable route fails, the backup plan is replacing the socket on the Sophia with the more standard female one.

 

Thank you for information.

Interested by make one, but no reason I'm luckier than Nemesis and Retro, but if I can help ...

 

Mega bump.

I wanted to follow up on this thread, because I recently bothered to actually dig those connectors I ordered from aliexpress out, and they work great. The only problem with the connectors, as discussed before, was that they're the socket variety, not the plug form, which means the outer shielding is wrong. Fortunately on the connectors I bought, if the socket hasn't been installed the outer shield can literally just be slipped off the plug. When I do this, the plug is a perfect mate for the socket on the Sophia. Since I had a lead on male plug connectors, I was planning to order a male plug, switch the shield over to the female connector, effectively turning it into a plug, to make a proper plug without modification to the mating interface. I was having a look at parts again tonight though, and there's no point, because you can actually buy the exact plug off the shelf. Introducing the 3M MDR (Mini Delta Ribbon) product lineup:
http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/media/555044O/3m-interconnect-products-shortform-catalog.pdf
Scroll down to page 16, you'll see the product range. Basically all of this stuff is in stock right now at www.digikey.com. To build a complete cable, first of all you'd want the most important part, a pair of MDR solder wiremount plugs, part number 10150-3000PE (2x $11.61 USD):
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/3m/10150-3000PE/3M1772-ND/773867
If you had the proper assembly equipment you could also use the machine-assembly version 10150-6000EC. Next, you'd want a pair of shells for those plugs. You could get the plastic version 10350-3210-00 (2x $7.63 USD):
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/3m/10350-3210-000/3M1743-ND/703406
Or fork over slightly more for the metal version 10350-C200-000 (2x $13.57 USD):
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/3m/10350-C200-00/3M10693-ND/2799134
After that you'll want some wire to connect the two together. For that, use 5 feet of 3659/50 100SF ($29.31 USD):
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/3m/3659-50-100SF/MC50R-5-ND/145420

So all up you're looking at $67.79 USD for plastic or $79.67 USD for metal in parts, not including shipping. Expensive for sure, but this is probably the only source left on the planet where you can buy the right gear to build a proper cable for this thing. This is all untested as I haven't ordered and built the parts for a cable myself yet, but with 3M being a proper parts supplier, we have full datasheets for the plug provided and the dimensions match the socket on this unit, not to mention it's specifically named as being the same range, so it will be compatible. If anyone else is interested in this, buy up now, this source could disappear at any time. The female plug and male socket form of this connector seems to basically be abandoned in favour of male plugs and female sockets.

EDIT: Whoops, I got my part numbers swapped! On a doublecheck, I notice the part number I've referenced there for the plug is in fact the male form, and 3M don't have a female version in the lineup. A pain as that may be, the original plan I had would still work. You could buy the socket version of the connector with a removable shield, and replace the shield with the plug form from this male connector. If you were going to attempt this, your best part to get would probably be this one the 10250-0210EC:
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/3m/10250-0210EC/MRB50A-ND/703366
The shield should pop off easily like on the ones I acquired, and these connectors have dragon tooth wiring on them, which gives a nicer result than soldering if you do it right. This should give you effectively the same result for an extra 2 * $13.64 USD, so we're now up to a $100 USD cable for a DIY job. Definitely not cheap, but not many options here.

Oh, for reference, I've attached an image of what the original cable looked like. It's the one in the middle with the ferrite beads clipped on. You could buy a couple of them if you wanted and clip them on a reproduction cable. With a modern shielded cable I'm not sure it'd be required, but hey, for aesthetics if nothing else. The metal connectors in the original unit were also the manual assembly type, and look quite close to the 3M ones. The original cable looks to be about 1.5M too (does someone have one to measure?), which 5 feet of cable would basically come out to, so the length would be the same. The only thing that would really be different is the fact that the 3M cable I've referenced above is black, but technically you could source any 50 wire shielded cable of the same gauge and use it, it doesn't have to be this particular 3M part. I'm sure you could find a length of compatible cable in white if you were inclined to do so.

 

As I said before, you need the shielding. I've even spoken to 3M years ago and they said don't do it.

 

It's a difficult post to follow, but I think he's saying to use the shield, just that you need to basically make your own connector out of 2 (shield from one, connector from another)

 

I don't think that would work. It's a completely different product, not just a shell that slips off. There are screw lugs, whereas the male plug has a different piece of plastic there.

The 3M sockets are only manufactured with through hole pins. The shielding makes it not fit the Saturn's socket, so you have to take it off, which you shouldn't do. They make male plugs with solder tags for cable manufacture... because these were used the other way round on digital cameras.

The original connectors used were NOT made by 3M. They just happen to be similar... but they're NOT a replacement. It is NOT the "exact same" connector. They also have locking prongs where you don't want any.

As I keep saying, I've spoken to 3M years ago and they said it's not going to work. I have also talked to the manufacturer of the ACTUAL socket and they don't make them any more... and the manufacturer of the cables. I spoke to several people who used to work for Cross, who confirmed the correct parts.

 

I think we have different definitions of what it means for this to "work", or even what "exact same" means in this context. I'm not claiming to have found a source of connectors which, when examined under an electron microscope is physically indistinguishable to any given cable originally shipped with the unit. I also don't care about that at all. I'm not trying to forge the Mona Lisa here, or conduct historically accurate and appropriate repair work on the Colosseum, I'm trying to connect a bunch of wires together. I only care about what properly connects those wires together in the easiest way possible, and in this case, without modifying the original system. I'm not trying to discover a way to "forge" reproduction cables to sell off as genuine and "fool" collectors, I'm trying to find a practical way to help people who actually want to use this hardware, if they find themselves without a cable.

The simple reality is, the physical dimensions of these MDR plugs and sockets match the VCD port on the Sophia, and the Extension I/O socket on the Katana. All three are the same physical spec (same physical spec=can physically mate), and I've proven that by physically mating sockets and connectors between each unit and each other, to verify they're the same physical spec. For the record, the original spec for ALL MDR-style connectors comes from Amphenol, and the very use of the MDR name in this 3M product line tells you it's claiming compatibility with that spec. Every manufacturer has their own part numbers, and plenty of parts with different numbers share compatibility, and it's not always spelled out for you. Part numbers can only tell you two parts should be equivalent (note, not necessarily identical), they can't tell you two parts are NOT equivalent. The fact is these connectors mate nicely to the Sophia and the Katana and the connectivity is perfect. Unless I somehow broke the physical laws of the universe in the process, the connectors are perfect matches. The ONLY remaining issue here is the physical distinction between a socket and a plug, and the ONLY difference between the two when it comes to the mating interface is the shielding. Take the outer shielding ring off a male connector (which for the record is easy, metal and plastic don't fuse afterall), place a female connector inside it, and you've got a female connector. Hell, if you want, don't bother with the shielding ring at all, just plug the connector in directly, it's non-essential to start with.

On the issue of compatibility of the shielding ring, the bumps don't have to match. All sockets have a tolerance factor, and no assembly line produces atom for atom identical results from every unit they manufacture, let alone across different plants or manufacturers, hence connectors need to allow for a degree of variance from the "ideal". Physical tolerances are stated in the spec. The connectors themselves "absorb" physical differences by, for example, having things able to flex or bend, with spring-like pressure to ensure a good mate. Tolerance issues aside this would be required anyway, so the connectors can "grip" each other and don't just fall out. The outer shielding on the plug is flexible. Those "bumps" are supposed to be there, and they're not supposed to be "matched" on the socket, they're supposed to "grip" it. Take a look at a parallel port connector, you'll see shield bumps aren't matched either, and the patterns vary between manufacturers (and note the plugs and sockets are still compatible and interchangeable).

I understand you've talked to various people about this retro, but I've actually physically tested it, and I can tell you, it works. Part numbers differ between manufacturers, and unless there's an equivalence listed on a datasheet stating the two connectors are designed to be interchangeable, or both connectors were based on a formalized international standard, nobody you talked to is going to claim they are, but the simple, physical reality is that these connectors are based on the same physical spec, whether that's documented in the datasheet or not, and that's something you can verify yourself by dissecting a port, mapping it with a micrometer set, and comparing to the published datasheets if you want to. Or you could buy a few connectors and prove it by physically connecting them, like I have. Or you can take my word on it, seeing as I've physically tested it, something nobody else you've talked to has done.

 

It. Does. Not. Work. I physically tested them years ago. It didn't work.

If you have to remove the shielding, it is NOT a match. If you have to cut pieces of plastic off, it's not a match but it can be bodged. The male plug shielding won't fit on the female PCB socket because the physical assemblies are different.

If it worked, you'd be sitting there now, transferring a game from a Mirage to a Saturn, not writing about how you think you can put the male shielding on the female socket and it should cost this amount. You would have posted a photo of your assembled, working cable. The very fact that you only have theory proves that you don't know that it works.

 

Your attempt at making a cable didn't work, I get it. Everything you tried failed. That's too bad. From the picture you posted, it looks like you had an attempt at attacking the mismatched outer housing from a single female socket with a dremel, had trouble getting it to mate (because the outer housing of the socket was too large), then gave up. Bummer. From that, you seem convinced that it's a physical impossibility for anyone, ever, in the entire expanse of space and time to come up with a working solution. That's an interesting theory, not sure I follow the logic though.

Using the outer shielding from a 3M male socket may or may not work. That point is untested. Frankly though, who cares about the outer shielding? You obviously seem to care about it a lot, but for anyone else, like me, who just wants to make a cable that allows the Sophia to communicate over the VCD port, all that really matters is the connector. I have personally plugged the connector into the Sophia. It fits perfectly. I tested continuity. It's good. Mating connector + good continuity = working connector, at least in the universe I live in. End. Of. Story.

Is this a perfect solution? No, you have to press a flathead screwdriver lightly against one piece of plastic to separate the connector from the socket, then hand-solder a 50 wire cable. Is this as easy as it would have been to take a brand new original cable out of the box? No. It'll probably take someone with a good soldering iron and experience the better part of an hour to make and test. Will the cable look identical to the original one? Probably not. Is that better than never being able to use the unit at all? For you, maybe the answer is no. For me, the answer is yes, and I'm sharing this information just in case now or in the future there's someone else out there in the same situation who feels the same way, possibly like the original poster in this topic.

I haven't made up a cable, because I don't own a Mirage or a JVC emulation card. This is future planning for the likely occurrence that whichever unit I end up with doesn't come with a cable. If and when that occurs, I'll wire up my own cable, using these connectors. Once that cable is tested and working, I might bother trying to fit an outer housing and shielding that works with the socket. Or I might just run an alligator clip from the cable shielding to the case. Or (more likely) I might not bother with either. Now that I've posted this information in this thread, other people are free to attempt to do the same.

By the way, in case it's not clear, this is basically the exact same solution the OP came up with over 9 years ago. Refer to step 2 in his instructions. He seemed happy with it.

 

x

 

Thank you Nemesis for your help.

I'm interrested by build one since I own a Sophia with a JVC card without this "famous" cable.

I must admit I've not many skill for that kind of work but want finally try!

 

I've successfully identified the connector and a viable replacement connector.

Details at the link below:
https://assemblergames.com/threads/sega-saturn-sophia-custom-build-of-rare-mdr50-vcd-cable.66827/

Cheers!
-Gerry