Saturn Virtua Fighter 3. Saturn 3D upgrade cart. what is known to this day?

I was always under the impression that the accelerator cartridge was being developed by SOA in partnership with Lockheed, and that AM2 produced Saturn versions of VF3 and Shenmue (then incorporating much more than just the first two chapters - supposedly even the whole story as it existed then) on "stock" hardware, which has been confirmed in the brief details officially given during that interview. I believe that Yu Suzuki has also said exactly the same thing, and that there were two separate completed revisions of VF3. The first was rejected on grounds that an inferior Saturn version would harm sales of Genki's "superior" Dreamcast version (as if this was even close to arcade perfect), while the second was delivered to pressing plants before being ultimately rejected because Sega had already abandoned the Saturn.

The exact performance figures of either VF3 or Shenmue can't be pinned down, despite the fact that anyone interested in the latter has probably already seen the official footage of it. One thing that can be guaranteed is that Shenmue was running at between 12 and 15 frames per second with similar levels of detail to (though still a little higher than) Panzer Dragoon Saga. I've even seen a few people speculate - and it is only pure speculation - that both titles used the same graphics engine, though I prefer to believe that AM2 would create everything from scratch, even if these games date from close enough periods to give this theory some credibility. As for VF3, I've heard everything from 500,000 to 1,000,000 used in relation to its polygon count, though 750,000 seems more realistic. Another idea mentioned enough to be possible is the use of 2D parallax backgrounds in the first revision, which were replaced by basic 3D in the second "final" build. Also, for the winning sequences (where only one character can be seen up close) the models were switched to higher quality versions.

In the past I have written so much about these two games - VF3 in particular - but there's always someone coming forward with just enough knowledge to change the overall picture, so it's difficult for now to find out enough for concrete facts. However, one thing I do know is that nearly everything reported back in 1996-1997 (i.e. the entire "cartridge" issue) was almost entirely untrue. For example, if Core Design were using this upgrade then it would make more sense that it was being developed in either America (as suggested earlier) or Europe, as SOJ wasn't exactly open with sharing its technologies to its Western counterparts - remember the whole Sonic X-Treme episode? What we really need to close this case is for either of the long-rumoured revisions to leak or for some genuine screenshots and video footage. After all, they've already done this for Shenmue. Come on, AM2!...

 

Im still in doubt myself if SEGA actually released any VF3 Saturn media. It probably was shown on some show or another but.. someone has shots/videos and is 110% sure its the Saturn version?

 

I'm pretty sure the answer to this is no. You'd think we would've seen a shot by now. Almost makes you wonder how far into development it was. Then again, apparently nobody knew that Shenmue was even considered on the Saturn until they released the Saturn Shenmue video on Shenmue II.

 

Does anybody even read whats posted?...Assembler said that somebody here has the 3D upgrade cart...they apparently showed it off years ago...isn't that a bit more interesting than random speculation?

 

Ok....this is going to sound like im an idiot.......but im confused about the RAM cart thing on Saturn. (I have one, but no games...so I dunno this) Is the RAM cart sort of like the N64 expansion pak, where certain games require it?

 

Exactly like that.

 

@GaijinPunch: ShenMue / Saturn was under development as "Virtua Fighter RPG" - it was even stated often in the german "Sega" magazine so it was not secret that Sega developed something really big.

 

Yeah, but when did they figure out it was Shenmue, and when did anyone see any pictures of it before Shenmue II came out? That's what I'm getting at. Apparently Sega can get pretty far into development w/o letting anyone know.

 

I knew Shenmue was considered for the Saturn as soon as I read about the game when it was called Project Berkley. It goes like this (and no, this isn't made up). AM2 originally planned a Saturn RPG code named Virtua Fighter RPG. This was to be released near the end on 1998. The project was only ever known by it's name and that it would feature characters from Virtua Fighter. No screen shots were ever shown. The game never saw the light of day or even spoke of again until the Dreamcast title Project Berkley was announced. This was said to be what was going to be Virtua Fighter RPG but for Dreamcast. From then you know that Project Berkley turned out to be Shenmue.

Now take a look at some of Shenmue's characters and you'll see quite a strking resemblance to some of Virtua Fighters. OK, for a start Ryo was probably meant to be a young Akira (Take a look at the Saturn version of Shenmue) then there's the two Chinese who train Ryo in Hong Kong to find his "wu" The woman in blue (Pai) and the oldish guy with moustache (Lau) Sorry but I haven't played Shenmue 2 in years so I forget their names. There are others that could be from Virtua Fighter as well. Shenmue 1 was even developed after Shenmue 2 !! Which is probably why most of the Virtua Fighter look a likes are mostly seen in Shenmue 2 and why most of the saturn's footage is also from Shenmue 2 as is all the early Dreamcast footage.

Of course we'll never know the whole truth but I would bet my home on it that Shenmue was originally going to be Virtua Fighter RPG.

Yakumo

 

Unmistakebly Aoi.

 

it is not a question of whether or not a Saturn 3D upgrade with a 3D chipset existed, the question is, what did it consist of: what GPU, what CPU (if any) and what RAM.

 

Another intriguing tidbit is that if you fire up the PC CDROM version of VF2 and browse its contents, you'll find a high-res image of a young Akira who resembles Ryo (right down to the white T shirt he wears, stepping off a bus with that green bag that you see him carrying at the end of Shenmue1.

 

Which would be easy if we could figure out who owns it. It's somebody here. It's somebody in the US, and this somebody has games for it.

 

Short answer: yes. Long anwer, there were a few different types. As far as RAM carts go, there was both a 1MB and 4MB variety, and their main purpose was providing extra memory for arcade ports on the system. Metal Slug (only one I can think of) used the 1MB cart to help the system work with the immense amount of animation in the game, while a lot of Capcom's later offerings (Vampire Savior, Dungeons And Dragons Collection, and Street Fighter Zero 3 for example) used the 4MB expansion to provide nearly arcade perfect versions of the games. Some games (I thought Street Fighter Zero 2 was one, but I might be wrong) did not require the 4MB expansion, but were coded to take advantage of it if present for smoother animation, faster load time, etc. But many, like Vampire Savior (only 4MB game I own) will not run without the 4MB expansion.

Similar to the RAM carts were ROM cartridges. As far as I can recall, there were only two games that used them - King Of Fighters '95 and an Ultraman title. The ROM carts contained game data (in the case of KOF95, sprite and animation data; not sure about Ultraman), weren't compatable with any other games, and were required by the game CD to run.

 

Yes, that picture is on the Virtua Fighter CG art discs for Saturn. I'm sure of it

Yakumo

 

Ah! That explains it.
I was wondering why Sega took the time to create all this high res artwork to included on the PC version...looks like they may have simply included some of the existing stuff on the CG art discs as an added bonus!
Mystery solved!

 

Rather off-topic, but why is Street Fighter Zero 3 so expensive? Isn't there an Alpha 3 (US version, obviously) that's cheaper?

Also, how does it stack up to the Dreamcast version?

 

Because it was released near the end of the Saturn's life plus it's the best home version available.

Yakumo

 

yup since i belive it runs closer to the arcades resoloution while the U.S. release only had the dc version for arcade perfect, however there is some slight animation missing ive heard plus since it runs in a hihger resoloution im guessing the characters come out slightly small, still i have it and am satisfied, dont feel the need to import teh saturn one.

 

It was actually released *after* the DC version, in 1999 I believe, making it one of the last games for the system (certainly the best of them, imho). I haven't played the DC version much, but the characters are smaller and supposedly control is not as precise. I also prefer the Saturn version because of the pad :smt033

And GSL, there's an excellent RAM cart FAQ at Gamefaqs that lists all the RAM cart games. AFAIK, the Cotton games and Pocket Fighter (and maybe also Groove on Fight) don't require the RAM carts, but they progressively get better with them.