Act 1: Sony says: "Rumble" is so last gen... “I believe that the Sixaxis controller offers game designers and developers far more opportunity for future innovation than rumble ever did. Now, rumble I think was the last generation feature; it’s not the next-generation feature. I think motion sensitivity is. And we don’t see the need to do that. Having said that, there will be specific game function controllers, potentially like steering wheels that do include vibration or feedback function — not from us but from third parties.†- Phil Harrison http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3157501 Act 2: Worse retrocompatibility in Europe and the great finale! Act 3: Sony says: Nintendo has to learn with us how to make a videogame... Posted by sjohnson - Monday, February 26, 2007 12:19 PM Sony President Phil Harrison recently chopped it up with Game Daily, and the plucky executive in charge of the PlayStation 3 says he has no regrets about the launch or performance of the next-gen game system. He also said Nintendo has something to learn from Sony about how to make videogame systems. "I think Nintendo, although I am very respectful of the innovation in Wii, and I think everybody should be respectful of it, I'm not sure that it has the technology base to propel that platform in the long-term. So I think their platform lifecycle is inherently going to be shorter, so they could have learned from us in terms of the high technology approach," Harrison said. "I don't really care about the negativity in the press; if it was true, if they were talking about real big issues that were genuine criticisms, then of course we'll address them, but there's nothing that bothers me," Harrison said. Harrison goes on to imply that the fact you can walk into a store and buy a PS3 right now but you won't find a Wii is due to Sony's superior supply chain, and not a lack of demand. " I know we are achieving our goals of keeping the market supplied and working closely with retailers to make sure they get informed about when supplies are coming in so that they can match their internal and external communications to store managers and consumers about when to buy a PS3. If that means that for Wednesday through Friday there were a few machines on a shelf in a store in Milwaukee, great," Harrison said. As far as the rumble that's so important to some gamersm, Harrison said: "Rumble I think was the last generation feature; it's not the next-generation feature. I think motion sensitivity is." http://www.g4tv.com/thefeed/blog/pos...tml#readm This gotta be a joke right? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
PR teams live outside the relm of reality. I say we lock the door and pull their internet so they can't open their yap anymore (and that includes reggie, the quite dumb caplin and the guys at microsoft ). The world would be a better place. Also anybody who says rumble is last gen sucks. My friend has no issue with the lack of rumble in ps3 (he usualy turned it off when playing ps2/xbox games anyways) but I personaly still love rumble and am dying to make a rumble usb add on for the psp.
shit, those guys are definetly nuts!!! "europe is very important to us" FUCK OFF i seriously planned to buy a PS3, mainly because i don't have a PS2, but i need some cool games for the PS2...but now, thank you sony, you fucking bunch of idiots
No rumble? Er, interactive experience folks?! Does that mean anything to Sony? The advent of the rumble was a revolution in my book and should be industry standard. That feedback has been used in all sorts of games in all sorts of situations and adds to the experience. To remove it? Are you f*ck*ng insane?
he does admit including it in other forms of controllers *by third parties* but *not with the console*. It's the legal issue most probably, he has to cover it up. Vibration function lawsuit In 2002, Sony and Microsoft were sued by force-feedback company Immersion for patent infringement for the use of vibration functions in their controllers. Specifically, they were accused of infringing on claims in U.S. Patent 6,424,333 and U.S. Patent 6,275,213 (filed 2000 and 2001 as extensions of U.S. Patent 6,088,017, itself filed 1998, all "Tactile feedback man-machine interface device"). While Microsoft settled out of court, purchasing a 10% share in the company, Sony continued to defend the case. Their defense centered on an earlier force feedback controller patent, the use of which Sony licensed from Logitech during 1998. Sony lost and was required to pay considerable retroactive royalties (approximately $91 million) to Immersion, for the seven years that the DualShock controller had been on the market, and suspend the sale of the controllers in the United States (including all PlayStation and PlayStation 2 console packages containing them). Sony appealed this decision and lost again and are awaiting the execution terms of the final sentence, but have yet to comply with the suspension of dual-shock controller sales. [2]. Features lost Sony has stated that because of these sensors, the rumble feature of the previous controllers has been removed, reasoning that the vibration interferes with motion-sensing.[5] Haptics developer Immersion Corporation (who successfully sued Sony)[8] expressed skepticism of Sony's rationale,[9] and has since introduced tilt and motion-sensing which filters out vibration in software[10] and has offered the corporation a deal in an attempt to reintroduce the rumble function.[11] Sony has claimed that the motion sensing in SIXAXIS would compensate for the lack of rumble. “ It seems like the folks at Immersion are looking to sort of negotiate through the press and try to make their case to us. But, I think from Sony's point of view, we have a design path that would enhance the experience for the gamers, and we're looking to move forward and not continue down the path that we did down before. But to better the experience, we've talked about how there's a potential for that rumble to interfere with the SIXAXIS controller. ” ——Peter Dille, Senior VP of Marketing for Sony Computer Entertainment America (SCEA), on the SIXAXIS controller[12] After Sony's announcement, eDimensional introduced G-Pad Pro Gyroscopic Gamepad, which supports both tilt sensing and force feedback in one single gamepad, designed for PC or PlayStation 2 platform. eDimensional's controller uses Immersion's force feedback technology.[13] As a result of removing force feedback, PlayStation 3 does not support force feedback wheels. According to Sony Computer Entertainment America, all PS3 games are programmed for the SIXAXIS which doesn't have force feedback, therefore the force feedback in the wheels won't be recognized. This created backlashes from gamers, arguing that rumbling found in DualShock controller and force feedback are not the same thing.[14] Phil Harisson said something about 3rd party ForceFeedback wheels, so I m not sure if this last statement of wiki is correct as of this writing.
No rumble? I have sat here thinking about that for some time. Would I miss the rumble? A long time ago when I remember using the first series of joysticks on the Atari 2600 it was a physical battle. Those things needed a hell of a lot of wear & tear before they actually felt responsive. Prior to that you fought against the controller. Anymore remember those black handled nightmares? That seemed to ease up when other 3rd party companies started producing controllers with more features, but less fight in them! You had little or no feedback however other than a soft click. You could, with certain joysticks count those clicks or flick the actual stick gently to make some pretty accurate moves. The advent of a controller that provided you feedback though, that was something else. We have become familiar with the additional experience the rumble has provided. It may seem like a small, insignificant thing to Sony, but it adds a huge amount to your gaming experience. I don't suppose I really have to explain it, but I had to give this question some thought and I came up with a plethora of games where I really felt the designers had carefully introduced rumble feedback to not only add an air of tension, but also provide that interactive edge to a title. Without the rumble, many titles would still be excellent, but they would definately lose something that has become an integral part of gaming. How can Sony substitute the rumble? You may or may not be concious of what it has added to your gaming experience, but go from using any console that has the feature to using one that doesn't (remove your N64 Rumble Pak for instance) and immediately something is lost. Sony just keep doing it to themselves & to their customers. I've become so used to the fact that controllers vibrate that I just assumed Sony would have integrated that technology into their PS3. A quick scan on the internet and I see that there is only 1 documented complaint regarding RSI (injury) caused (potentially) by controller vibration. Speaking as someone who suffers from carpal tunnel syndrome, I have the opposite experience. The vibration of the controller often gives me vital (hell, it's just a game - NO IT'S NOT!) feedback allowing me to maintain control of speeding cars or it ensures I don't just walk off a ledge etc etc. The list has become endless! You just get the impression that Sony have stopped listening to their customers. Barc0de you added your legal stuff whilst I was typing. At this rate console designers will be so fearful of lawsuits they'll just go back to giving us sticks to play with.
Sony haven't stopped listening to their customers, or at least, they are aware people are pissed off at the lack of rumble. They've just pegged a simple profit equation: licensing costs > revenue lost from consumers not buying PS3 due to lack of rumble. Lawsuits in gaming are nothing new, either. Hell, Nintendo spent most of the late 80s up to the mid 90s fighting high-profile legal battles, a lot of which defined the gaming landscape as it is today.
With regards to the Wii, I do think Sony have a point, once the novelty of the controller wears off are people going to keep supporting the wii? If you look at the number of DS games released in the last month, how many really use the touch screen in any useful way (ie the game couldn't work without it....), the Wii does look rather dated against the PS3 and I still can't find a game I really want to buy the system for, although the PS3 was my first new console purchase in a few years. As for rumble, oh it's gone has it? Well that's no big loss really, the only thing I would use force feedback on would be a driving game and the decent drivers support the Logitech GT Force Pro anyway... Although saying that the motion controller so far has been a waste of time (see wii comment above) and I haven't used it on any of the 7 games I have....
There have been plenty of recent DS games that couldn't be pulled off without the touchscreen. However, the beauty of the Wii is that developers don't have to use the motion aspect. People said the same thing about novelty with the DS, and look how that turned out And I think rumble will be missed. Games like Rez, Ico, MGS and even Ocarina wouldn't be the same without it. When you use the Wii's menu you really get a sense of how useful Rumble is when tastefully employed. Oh, and my Atari 2600's sticks are still stiff as ever. Maybe it has something to do with age or lack of use? Regardless, I couldn't stand how you never really know exactly where the joystick was because of the poor tactle feedback.
funny you should mention ocarina. VirtualConsole on the Wii lack rumple support *I Think*. I m certain that the retro controller lacks rumble motors, but unfortunately, even if you hook up a GC controller, the feature is unavailable.
That's good then, so it's just another cost cutting exercise being wrapped in Sony PR bollocks you mean? Frankly, had the PS3 been superduper, all encompassing and as dogs knackers as they've been hyping for months on end then the price wouldn't deter hardcore, next gen gamers. Lets face it, Sony use 3rd party components on most of their TV sets (for example) these days and still consumers are prepared to pay that little bit extra because of the name Sony. Sony TV sets used to mean quality & reliability, but unscrew the back off their current product lines and you'll discover they are just cost cutting all over the place. What has happened however is that Sony pumped money into their development of a machine that is slowly being stripped of it's features before our very eyes. We might not see the difference in the output of their TV's, but I can actually see the PS3 shrink as I gaze! Simply justifying this by saying the missing features are "...so last gen" is pathetic. They have cut costs, cut corners, cut features and seem determined to cut off their customer base. I actually don't recognise the product they are trying to sell me. I heard their descriptions, I read their blurb and I've been enthusiastically waiting. Whilst I have waited for the European release, much has changed. I realise that Sony have to make crucial decisions. It is their product after all. Some of those decisions are going to be unpopular with a certain percentage of gamers. I for one am mightly disappointed about the backwards compatibility (discussed at length elsewhere) and losing rumble is also in my opinion a poor decision. Sony have failed to convince me personally that they have produced a product I want to run out and purchase immediately. I'm more inclined to sit and wait it out. It's not the product per se, I am losing faith is Sony, which is a terrible truth. The PS3 is ill defined as an end product. I feel like we are waiting for yet more announcements from Sony to indicate that other bits will be taken away, are no longer user friendly, necessary or last gen! They can only go so far, but how far? Why can't they stop jacking off, release the damned thing in Europe and support it rather than screwing around with it? I've never known a launch edition be so tampered with. The only press I hear these days about the PS3 is bad press.
I would advise you NOT to unscrew the back of your TV, it has a big voltage warning for a good reason! But other than that, I agree with Parris. Any luck with TOOL? or is that piece of SONY accessory still doing your head-in?
I've seen and read plenty of bad responses to negative press, but this just takes the cake. He essentially said that any "negative press about the PS3 is fake and we will continue to ignore it no matter what". Also, you supposedly dicard rumble because it's last-gen, yet you have used the same controller for 3 years in 5 different iterations? Jesus Christ...
- I think it only serves to highlight the fact that I am genuinely a gaming enthusiast and not some fanboy with my head stuck up my ass and ranting for the sake of it! I loved the PS1, it was a genuine delight at the time. It took me a while to warm to the PS2, but now I enjoy it. Despite my love of all things Xbox, I am a confirmed PS enthusiast. The PS2 Tool is a prick of a unit to repair & maintain however OH: I wanted the PS3 to blow my socks off and I just feel rather disappointed in Sony thus far. As for not taking the back off a TV - good point - enough zap in them to put an untimely end to your gaming...and breathing. h:
The only thing Ocarina really used it for (if memory serves) was for finding "hidden" stuff. The only hidden item I ever found was in front of the tree near the entrance to Kakariko village as I still don't own a 1st party rumble pak.
Melodrama aside (this thread has more than a Final Fantasy love story) the PS3 is disappointing in some ways but in others I find it quite impressive. The main problem for Sony is that Microsoft are offering something directly comparable with over a years worth of development behind it and a lower price tag. In terms of the Euro delay, it sounded bad to start with and I was fuming. Now it is happening I see that the benefit is a good with a varied line up of games at a lower price tag than expected (for the games - a knock on affect of the PS3 being multi-region one assumes, so props to Sony there) and a decent shipping forecast. It could have been a killer launch had it not been for the bad press Sony are going to receive for the BC cuts. From what I have read in the media it isn't affecting pre-orders though.
Melodrama? Hmmm, frustration & disappointment I think. Any emotive scattiness is coming from Sony alas. I do agree that MS are actually looking like a genuine threat to the PS3. Having said that, I also think that the Wii, far from being a short term gimmick also poses more of a threat to Sony than they appear to be admitting to themselves. Someone else mentioned the DS, which is proof of Nintendos success of late.
The DS: Nintendo is a well established business name in the handheld market, and I admire the ground covered by the Wii more than the market-share of the DS (Which is in comparison to the GBA, smaller). In business terms the DS is doing fine, but this was to be expected from a company that has streamlined handheld tactics and third party relationships. Traditionaly, people's confidence in nintendo's handheld series has been proven time and time again when the GameBoy kicked much stronger competitors in the nut-sack. To add insult to injury, the PSP marketing strategy and business policy seems to be an after-thought for SONY, compared to its home consoles. SONY , in my view, has neglected the PSP both in trying to atract third party developers and in aggressively pursuing a bigger market share by reducing prices. A price reduction , although a bit too late now, might perhaps boost PSP sales. It's not a bad machine. IT's not bad at all actually. Considering the computing power it packs, it can pull of many games. You see, the GBA didnt have two screens and a touchscreen. It was a single screen game device and so is the PSP. If the GBA made it, the PSP could too, to a certain degree. By now though, the table has been tilted far too much towards the DS for a price reduction to have a meaningful effect on the race, but it could still make it a good money-maker for the company. Also, the Linux initiative on the PS3 should follow suit on the PSP. Why not? PS3 at home with linux, PSP on the go with linux. File transfering, mp3 listening and doing some extra this and that. Regarding the Wii now, I m very happy that nintendo started making some right business decisions, but I m reluctant to claim them victorious just yet. They re losing great amount of money due to their short supply, and this cant be good. I ve been personally waiting to buy a Wii since December. That's alot of time. By the time people get stock in the shops, momentum might have been lost and with no bang titles on the horizon (Wii-style, not Paper Mario which is mostly directed to the known Mario fan) it's hard for me to be optimistic for the Wii during this year. The PS3 seems to have bad mojo all around it, especially in Europe. Marketing seems exciting on it, but people don't seem impressed. Not that there's something wrong with the hardware, Joe Public doesn't know shit about hardware anyway - for all they know it might be more powerful than the 360 because it was released later. It's the lack of titles. I cant see how many of you and most importantly how Mr.Dickhead (Aka Phil Hair-loss-son) claim that the PS3 has "great titles". They re shit. Motorstorm is average. Resistance:Fall of man is..a shooter. and the rest of the offerings are either same old same old, or nothing that interesting gameplay-wise. The sun sure shines bright on the Microsoft camp though.
I pretty much agree with you ther Barc0de. That's the biggest problem with PS3 really. It's just average. Average, costs more, no superb games out. I'm quite happy with my 360 though. I agree with the Wii big time too. I've wanted a Wii system for awhile, but you just can't get it. But I'm also concerned if it would even be worth it with what few titles are out.
