Warning: This thread is Taboo if you like Starcraft (or Blizzard in general), ya hear? Ok. I need to get something off my chest, I would like to discuss the striking similarities of the races in Starcraft and Warhammer 40K. It's real obvious, you can compare SC right next to WH40K: Marines = Space Marines Protoss = Eldar Zerg = Tyranid (they almost look exactly the same, also). Some think 'It is purely a coincidence, and that there are lots of sci-Fi sources to get this stuff from', but I think there is something more to the story. Especially considering the company that made Warhammer 40K is over 30 years old and Warhammer 40K predates Blizzard itself. Some reviews of Dawn of War always compare it to Starcraft. Almost Like they KNEW it had something to do with Starcraft, or perhaps toppled it as the best RTS. I tried to find links proving this, but the general "rumors" around Wikipedia and various forums is that Starcraft (and also Warcraft) were originally going to be a Warhammer 40K and Warhammer games, respectively, but Games Workshop wouldnt let them have the liscense to do so. Blizzard did so anyway, but made changes. Very few, though, since you can tell there are striking similarities between them. From the Wiki "The games StarCraft and Warcraft are rumored to be based on the tabletop wargames Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000; it is rumored that Warcraft was supposed to be a Warhammer PC game in development but a fall out between UK-based Games Workshop, the creators of the two tabletop games, and Blizzard occurred. One link to this rumor can be found in Warcraft III; if a griffon rider is repeatedly clicked, he would eventually say "This Warhammer cost me 40K." Also, I recall reading Blizzard claiming that they "borrowed" heavily from Games Workshop at some point or another. At least they can admit it somewhat. The only people really crying about the allegations are the Blizzard fans. I posted something similar to this in another forum only to get ambushed by people saying Games Workshop coped Tolkien and other various 80 year old Sci-Fi and fantasy novels. The following was an actual response from an SC fan got offended at what I was saying: "Dear moron, Games Workshop ripped off Tolkien like no one's business. A lot of fantasy settings do. The idea of elves as humans with pointy ears, Orcs, all TOLKIEN. People aren't stealing ideas from GW because they use Orcs in their games. On the Sci-Fi side, bug swarms aren't anything unique or new. STFU." What I was talking about was how Blizzard pretty much straight up took the designs and looks of GW's Warhammer and Warhammer40k and slapped their label on it. At least he should know that pretty much every modern conception of anything came from somewhere else sometime else. Robots? 1800's. Giant bugs? 1920's-30's (then 1950's with Starship Trooper's, and etc). And even Tolkien took ideas from pre-established ideas. He basically took fae creatures (which come in all MANNER of shapes and sizes), one specific category of fae, and just tossed on the elf label (elves being more like gnomes or dwarves). Its a little sad that Blizzard also made MILLIONS with their stolen ideas, which adds insult to injury. I dont think Blizzard should pay dues or anything, but I think if they havent already, they should probably give credit where its due. Anyways, I dont Games Workshop is suffering TOO bad with the recent sucess of Dawn of War and how much their minis and stuff go for nowadays.:lol: Well, that was my rant. What do you guys think? BTW, I've never seen this discussed before on this forum, but the games in question are pretty old. Dawn of War would have been around about the time of my registration here, so this MAY be a repeat topic, but I just wanted to know.:thumbsup:
Yes, I think they are VERY similer. However I never knew about warhammer or 40000 or whatever until around 2001 or so. I was never into tabletops or war kinds of games other then the video varity. So having played both alot (starcraft far more though) i think starcraft is the better game between the two. Dont get me wrong, they are both great games, but starcraft has been around for almost 10 years now and its still strong. So strong in fact that it carries enough clout to sell out a sequel even if it sucks balls. Blizzard could spit in a box and label it starcraft II and it would sell out in 10 min. But as for ripping warhammer off, I think its possable, but I dont think it diminishs the quality of the work in starcraft.
Personally, for me, I prefer Dawn of War over Starcraft. I dont like gathering resources in Starcraft. I like Dawn of Wars "Requisition" and power system more. It lets you focus more on one thing: Battle. I also dont like how Starcraft requires you to mass produce certain units very quickly to win 90% of the time. I think whoever is producing Mark of Chaos (A Warhammer fantasy not sci-Fi) said Requisition was fine and all, but they were changing it to nothing but battle. I remember him saying you dont even have to build bases. You just have two BIG armies on the field (thousands of units or so) and you can use Forts defensively and towers for arrow units. Those are more of the kinds of games I'd like to see. Base Building isnt so bad, really, but I really dont like resource gathering, especially if the resources can run out!
So it's official. Warhammer has to ripoff of starcraft in order to garner sales.... zOMG Zerg RUSH!KKkKkKKkkkkkk......... X__X
Sci-fi (and fantasy) worlds all bundle together into one incestuous, amorphous blob as far as I was ever able to work out. Amost none of them are truly unique. Blizzard certainly borrowed ideas liberally from Games Workshop, but Games Workshop have always taken wholesale from other people, so anyone on either side pointing fingers is a massive hypocrite. I never really saw the downside of it, either - Starcraft and WH40k both had decent character design and inventive mythologies (back when I was playing the latter anyway, I've no idea what it's like now), so I never cared.
I'd guess so. The Tau from Warhammer 40K seemed to be copied from Anime. The Battlesuits are really "Gundam-ish" I'd say. Just a lot smaller in size. I dont know how old the Necrons are, but they are much like Terminators (not the Space Marine higher-tier version BTW) from the movie. Im not saying they DIDNT copy from others, though. Im only saying Blizzard just straight up took their ideas and made millions, though Games Workshop is ESSENTIALLY doing the same right now, but the people they took ideas from wasnt hurting a company per se. Anyways, the game industry would be pretty bland if there wasnt competition and plaguerism. Just look at Sony, they took Nintendos idea of the remote with their new wireless controller. And ever since Halo, we've seen tons of clones and knock offs. Every killer app has clones and knock offs. Some good, some bad. And a lot of them give us something to talk about in the end. I think nowadays, its extremely difficult to be totally original. Especially in Fantasy and sci-Fi settings. Some original ideas also are too dumb to even think about, too.
Never heard of Necrons or Tau so I'd say they're "new". As in, could be best part of a decade old Anyway, if what you say is true then you've got an anime army vs the terminators, then you've got Eldar blatantly being space elves, Tyranids being Aliens, and Space Marines being Starship Troopers/any generic futuristic human race. Has the predator turned up yet? Is there a Robocop army out to stop the Necrons? I mean, how many franchises are left to plunder? This is the only bit I didn't understand. How is it that Blizzard are hurting Games Workshop? If Games Workshop came up with a better game than Starcraft, more people would play it. They're competitors taking ideas from the same collective source, playing in the same arena (videogames). Why is it Blizzard that's hurting Games Workshop and not the other way around - since Blizzard got there with a decent space RTS first? Either way, I don't imagine there's any bad blood between the two companies, their staff are fully aware they're involved in massive plagiarism in all their work. If they weren't, it wouldn't be sci-fi/fantasy.
The Necron are against every living thing in the Universe. They arent QUITE terminators, but they look similar. Space Marines pretty much are already genetically enchanced robocops on super mutation steroids anyway. Well, a lot of races sort of are actually. The Tau showed up around 2001 or so in the game. There is a Space Marine tank called the predator, but I dont think there are any predator like beings in. All the races I know of and where I think they originate: 1. Space Marines -generic superhumans pretty much 2. Chaos Space Marines -generic demonic dudes 3. Eldar- Space elves 4. Dark Eldar- Dark Space elves 5. Tau- Anime race 6. Tyranids- Pretty generic Bug aliens, although I dont think some of them share a hive mind. 7. Daemonhunters- Um...Space Paladins with guns and swords? 8. Witch Hunters- Mostly female version of the space marines. Probably catered to feminist women (or men) Have colonial American touches to their armor and clothing. I have never seen that in a Space game EVER. 9. Imperial Guard - WWII-esque race of humans except they have lazers. They have generic Ogres, too, but they suck. 10. Necron - Terminator-ish automatons with human souls trapped inside. 11. Orkz - Space Orcs Out of all of them I think the Daemonhunters and Witch Hunters are the most "original" but thats not saying much. Games Workshop raised some hell about them taking their ideas, but didnt really take much action. I dont think Games Workshop is suffering really. Far from it. I think they finally nailed it in the RTS department with Dawn of War. (After many failures) Although I hear their earlier RTS games from like the 90s were good, they didnt get acclaim from everyone like Dawn of War or Starcraft did. A lot of people right now like Dawn of War more than Starcraft, and since reviews of it always compared it to Starcraft, pissed off many Starcraft fans immensely. (My guess, anyway.) I imagine Dawn of War made people (Like me) do more research on the developers in particular and found out what Blizzard did all those years ago. Im sure last year and maybe late 2004 there was plenty of people crying over this issue on Relic forums and Blizzard forums alike.
I love and hate that strip at the same time. Games Workshop just cant get a break sometimes. That game was in development along the same time as WoW was, but WoW got done faster. GW realized it looked Similar and people would be acting like Gabe was in the strip. So, they delayed it to give it a Graphical face lift. Now its not as "Cartooney" as WoW and looks a lot cooler. Im probably never gonna play it though since I never really cared for monthly fees. All the pointing fingers gets damn annoying though.
The only Warhammer game I've ever played was the first Space Hulk game. Scared me shitless when I played it. Do they even have the tabletop game these days? It was pretty much my favourite way back when. Don't take it too seriously. Penny Arcade strips are really abstract these days, I preferred it when they did more direct critiques of games. The commentary is what I still read it for (I suppose these days it'd be called a "blog"), the strip is pretty much optional.
They still play it as far as I know. It probably wont go away for a long time, like D&D. I've never played any of the older games, but I hear good things from people that have played them. Space Hulk is mentioned in particular. What was so scary about it? I dont really read their blogs that go along with the Strips. Maybe I should start.;-)
Honestly, I don't remember. I was pretty young at the time - the videogame came out in 1993 and I would've been 9, so may have something to do with it. Just to clarify, I was talking about the videogame. The tabletop game is pretty tense but not scary, even to 9 year olds - it's decent dorky fun, anyway.
