[Suggestion] Documenting and translating the "2-Chip" SNES RGB fixes

Hi,

I've always tried to reacquire a SNES since I have sold mine ages ago. Today, in the age of HDTVs, (good) external upscalers and an understanding of good picture quality, I set out to learn everything there is about the SNES and which model has the best picture quality, either by mods or out of the box.

I understand that there are several threads about this and all of them come to the conclusion, that either the 1CHIP-03 or the SNES Jr. delivers on this front.
All of this sounded like the way to go for me, until I read that those 1CHIP models have certain "incompatabilities" with certain games, or at least display them differently or rather incorrectly, which bothers me a lot tbh.

I know I shouldn't care about that, since 99% of the games run perfectly fine, but this is something that realy annoys me with redesigned systems. The first slim PS2 models also had this behavior and that is one of the reasons I'll always prefer the fat models over those certain slims. I realy hope I'm not the only one with this quirk

And because of all that, I'd rather take 100% compatabilty / perfect execution of games over the best picture quality out of the box. This wouldn't be a problem if the difference in picture quality wouldn't be such a mess when it comes to the SNES models, but there has to be a way and I tried to look for one on those older models.

So to finally come to the real point of this thread, I searched a lot and found a link to a japanese site (I think I found it here on the board), which shows how the guy behind it, tried to fix these issues and I have to say, that I'm quite impressed with the comparison pics. The results look very promising and I wondered why noone ever picked it up or tried to translate the instructions.

Here you can see the way he did it and how the picture compares to the Jr. and before those modifications:

SHVC-CPU-01: http://vaot.mydns.jp/fc/sfc_sharp2.htm
SNS-CPU-RGB-01: http://vaot.mydns.jp/fc/sfc_sharp.htm

So I wondered if anybody understands what exactly he is doing there and if maybe there are other "modern" ways to accomplish exactly the same (or maybe even better) results on these older models ?
Would it make sense and get someone who can design PCBs to make an easier install, to avoid this "mess" he did to the motherboard?

I hope there are people here who have the technical understanding, or can translate the japanese texts and help me out to preserve this tutorial in english, for those in the future who are also interested in getting one of these older models.
Maybe those with the skill might also be able to apply whatever he did to the other "2-CHIP" models, so we have a solution for every model ?

It's just an idea and I would like to hear what you guys think about this, because the idea alone, that there is indeed a way to significantly improve the picture quality on the older models is enough of a reason for me to further look into this, rather than just "buying a 1CHIP" model

Regards,
noc

 

For reference, here's the original thread - without much in the way of technical background unfortunately.

 

I always thought 1CHIP is the way to go. Do we have a list of games and the actual incompatibilities, this is the first time I'm hearing of this

 

Here is the list:
http://www.racketboy.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=52&t=46303

 

Me too...

Huh, now I'm similarly perturbed as you are. Super Ghouls N' Ghosts is one of my favourite SNES games to just pick up and play...

 

This is really neat as the RGB output from the old systems look like f'ing garbage

 

Here you can see one example, with the shadow in A.S.P. which is almost not visible on 1CHIP consoles:


EDIT: Here you can see the flaw in Ghouls N' Ghosts ... it's realy only 1 frame in this game, but still ... that is in oddity caused by the 1CHIP consolidation, which is considered as an "official clone system" according to byuu and that alone bothers me

Look at 7:30

I also think that is worth a mention and I hope that we can further advance the research into improving the picture quality on the first models.

 

Imho this mod may have gone beyond good and into "too sharp" territory, but nevertheless it really needs better documentation. So guys, please be careful not this turn into yet another 1chip thread.

Spoiler: This dude's work ain't exactly self-documenting...

(from his FC HDMI installation)

 

Yeah, this wasn't my intention, but there still seem to be a few surprised people out there

Anyway, this thread is about modding the pre 1CHIP models to get the best possible picture out of them ... just to clarify that (again )

 

I believe the other thread already has the conclusion on the "sharp pixel mod" but here goes once more:
People built and tested it, complete with a designed PCB. The result was that it works but it creates many ugly artifacts that overshadow the enhanced sharpness.
The idea of the mod is viable but it would need much more work tuning the components.
And even then, the result might be too minor to be worth the effort.

I recommend you settle for a regular SNES and do a RGB amplifier mod using the THS7314.
One day (soon, hopefully), there will be an FPGA option for SNES. Perfect picture quality and probably comes with HDMI.
Jwdonal is working on one:
http://forums.nesdev.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=15143

 

Where did you see those PCBs ?

Also I'm not a friend of those "console-in-FPGA-designs" ... I could also just use higan if I wanted accurate emulation.
Same applies to those 1CHIP consoles ... if original hardware can't maintain 100% compatabilility, I can just use any inacurate emulator.

 

If FPGA consoles aren't your thing, that's fine by me.
But they are not "just any emulator". I'd like to stress the distinction

 

Where does this picture come from? Is there any thread to read up? It's the first time I see those.

 

+1 interest in those PCBs, if you happen to have a link somewhere. Because if you want to tinker with stuff you probably don't want to work on a deadbugged circuit.

That's probably just an HDMI encoder addon (edit: wait, no, it's the complete console VHDL'd...), not something replacing the whole console...? Personally, not a fan of HDMI for 2D stuff - pixel art was made with CRTs in mind - but to each his own.

 

Another approach to adding HDMI output:
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=58652

 

Just out of curiosity, can the video signal be grabbed in it's digital form somewhere on the mainboard?
I ask, because on the NES and on the N64 you can (hence the HDMI mods) ... but what about the SNES?

 

I designed this PCB but never published it. I got weird side effects like massive jailbars on certain situations and a noisy composite video image.
However, if someone wants to try it out, please let me know. I can send out my test PCB or also the PCB file for OSHPark.

No chance...

 

I believe it's already on your github: https://github.com/borti4938/SNES-A...RGB Bypass/Backup/3Chip-SNES/SNES RGB In-Pass

 

No... that's a design with a THS7314.
I named it in-pass as it does not sit directly behind the S-PPU2 but behind the first row of transistors.

Spoiler

 

My bad. I'd be interested in the PCB though. I have a spare SHVC-CPU-01 that I'm not doing anything with.

EDIT: Just looked at the PCB in Kicad. It is indeed this mod and not the picture you showed.