Superior Video Format?

I thought I would post in this category because my question is a rather basic one. I have noticed that people on this forum and elsewhere often talk about trying to use rgb as an output to many game systems. I take it that this is a superier video format. I am not sure, however, what people mean when they say "rgb". It could refer to several things; it could refer to a VGA cable, an older 5-pin RGB cable (the type old Commodore monitors used), or to a SCART RGB cable. I assume that it is the latter, since many systems accept this and it is the only one used on TV's. Is that the ideal video format for videogame systems? If so, why? I believe it has a slightly higher resolution and overall video quality. Is it true that most videogame systems can output to a SCART cable, even ones that weren't made in Europe? Is SCART superior to S-VIDEO?

I am of course referring to systems that aren't capable of outputting to VGA or any HD format.

 

in the world of Analog signals.. VGA(d-sub)=RGBHV(the one with the five BNC or RCA connectors)>= RGB component (progressive scan)>RGB (Can be EuroScart)>S-Video>Composite (RCA)>RF>Screwed Pair of twisted wire.

 

Yes a full RGB scart is better then Svideo

 

I'm not sure what this refers to. What types of devices use this connector? Do any video game systems use it? For that matter, do any video game systems use any type of component output (besides current-gen such as xbox)?

 

scart is no video format, scart is just a type of connector that can carry rgb and composite video, stereo audio and some other signals related to the TV operation mode.

that means that every device that outputs a standard 15khz video signal via composite or rgb video can be connected to a tv via scart.
videogames, arcade pcbs, vga graphics carts(with a circuit that halves the signal frequency to 15khz) etc.

scart has absolutely nothing to do with refresh rate, screen resolution, signal quality or anything like that, its just a connector.

you probably know how a crt tv works:
to put it simply, there are 3 electron guns for 3 colors, red,green and blue. each gun emits an electron beam which causes a small spot on the screen to light up.
by scanning the whole screen rapidly, this creates the illusion of an image on the screen.
go look it up on wikipedia or somewhere else.

now, the question is:
how should the data that forms that image be transferred to the tv set?
basically, its always a trade-off between picture quality and bandwidth.

rgb has 4 different signal wires, the three colors plus a sync signal.
that means it has the best possible picture quality, because each signal has its own wire.

composite video has the sync signal plus color information multiplexed into one analog signal, which means worse picture quality, but less bandwith and of course just one cable, not 4.

rf has not only the sync and color, but also the sound and many, many of these channels multiplexed into one analog signal.
worst quality, but also the least bandwith-consumption per channel.
thus, you can transfer many different channels at the same time over just one wire.

 

RGB component and standard RGB both have 3 signal wires. Sync is on green.

 

You are almost SOL if you want RGB in North America. It is very clear God did not want us to have it. There are a handful of monitors out there you can get, but many of them will require you to make your own cables... the Sony PVM line specifically.

 

I was going to make a big webpage comparing composite and RGB for all the RGB-enabled systems that I have, but I got sidetracked by a game project.

Maybe someday I'll put up my page, "I want my R-G-B!"

 

Doesn't the old Commodore 64 monitors have RGB input? Might be of poor quality by todays standards but they are probably good for old consoles modded for RGB output.

 

Yes, but they're almost uniformly 13". The best solution is to buy a broadcast monitor or buy/make a RGB->"Component" transcoder. They can be made for around $10 of parts or purchased for under $100.

 

i always keep hearing the same , "ld is the best" but... at the end... isnt it just ntsc? you know... shitty colors...screen bleed... dot crawl.... juck...

 

I've never heard of high-definition laserdisc. The general consensus on the wiki about LDs is that an expertly mastered LD played on very expensive equipment will be better than an average DVD on a standard DVD setup, but DVDs have a higher resolution and for the same cash you could get a much better DVD rig.

The output format is s-video or composite in most cases, so it probably wouldn't be high-definition in any real sense of the term. Couldn't compete with HD-DVD or Blu-ray, anyway.

I thought this was about SCART anyway?

EDIT: My mistake, there were high-definition laserdiscs in Japan that needed a special player, decoder and TV set. 1125 lines. 2,900,000 yen for a 55" rear projection screen!

 

That's not the format... it's the connection. You don't get all the bleeding in NTSC with RGB.

 

That may be true, but if you have, say, an HDTV that has a VGA input on it, you could buy an RGB (SCART) to VGA adapter and it would look just as good. Would it not?

 

Laserdiscs store analog video using PWM on their digital disc, the analog video itself is "normal" analog NTSC (or PAL). That's why the best connection a LD player has is Y/C err S-video.

Also "in NTSC with RGB" is an oxymoron, NTSC carries encoded RGB signals but RGB knows nothing of NTSC

No, no it wouldn't unless the "adapter" simply split the digital sync signals for the VGA monitor. Most monitors aren't able to accept "simply split sync" signals because VGA monitors cannot sync with "SCART" RGB video. Because of this, most "adapter"s actually upscan or digitally process the analog video to output a video VGA monitors can view. This creates loss; granted some "VGA adatpers" are very good at what they do, but there is always some loss.

 

Yeah, but would the loss be great enough for anybody to notice? By the way, what adapter would you recommend? Also, why exactly do you keep putting the word "adapter" in quotations?

 

Bump. I really gotta know; what is a good/inexpensive SCART to VGA adapter? Anybody know where I can get one? I ask because I found this ultra cheap supergun on a board thingy that only has a SCART output.

On a side note, does anybody know why those things are so cheap? Is it a scam? Search eBay for "supergun" and it should come up.

 

It's so cheap because it's just some cable, sometime with resistors.

 

Whether or not you can notice the loss depends on the person and the monitor and the adapter. I put adapter in quotes because it's not the correct word for such a device, generally they're known as transcoders or upscanners depending on the function.

Any Supergun that outputs SCART is not a "Supergun", technically, Supergun was a specific early JAMMA "test rig"/"control box." The entire purpose was to encode RGB video into video managable on home TVs at the time (RF and if you were lucky, composite) 2) provide a gamepad decoder to use cheap 6 button pads with Street Fighter 2 and 3) to house the dangerous arcade power supply.

The device I can only guess you're talking about if you don't post a URL is the red bare PCB device on eBay; it's cheap because it's only a PCB, connectors and 3 IC to decode the 3 button MD pads, resistors to set the 555 timer and attenuate the audio to faux line level; you supply the power AND the video encoder, it also only has provisions for 3 button pads.