I just picked up a French NES with RGB ouput. Well, sort of RGB output. I have read postings, in various forums, stating that the picture from these units didn't look any better than normal composite video. I had to check it out for myself. Sadly, it's true. The French PAL "RGB" NES has a RP2C07 PPU which only outputs composite video. Pin 14, 15 and 16 (R,G,B on the RP203B PPU) are soldered to ground. So the RGB that the unit outputs origins from composite video. Not a good thing. I was hoping that maybe I just could add a small RGB amp. You get color if you live in SECAM land ok, but for the rest of us the "motion adaptive" comb filters in our modern TVs are probably way better then whatever old bandpass filter this 198x NES has... However, it fits my shelf fine, and since I don't know any 50/60Hz switch hacks for the NES, I will keep it in my collection for use with PAL games. Pictures will be posted later on in my collection thread. Cheers! CF
Playchoice 10 http://www.klov.com/game_detail.php?game_id=9043 but colours are inverted apparently...
All arcade FC/NES-hardware outputs RGB. Only the emphasis effects are apparently inverted, normal palette colors aren't, but they are still "off" the "normal" NTSC colors. RGB PPUs have both ugly and crippled palettes (PAL PPU are just ugly), but the palettes are subjective since color is subjective and most people configure their TVs wrong.
Try getting a Famicom Titler. It's a consumer model (no arcade stuff here); it has a very nice and clear picture, and outputs RGB, S-Video, and Composite, all sharper than a stock NES or Famicom. I love it!
Oh yes, the famicom titlers PPU-Chip (RC2C05-99) is based on a true RGB signal, though the output signal is converted to a S-VHS signal. but it's much way better than the crappy wishiwashi AV signal that the standard consumer FC/NES units delivers to your tv.
That's the Famicom titler that they're talking about...apparently it's used for subtitling things...and playing Famicom games. I never understood that one...
The bubble-economy days in Japan in the late 80s were like the dotcom bubble days in the late 90s -- any crazy consumer product idea was tried. "Dad can title his cherry-blossom-viewing videos while junior can play his Famicom. It's a great idea."
Aren't they prohibitively expensive though? As in funny money prices? Rare too. Still, I'd love to get hold of one someday.
yes. those days, NEC spend so much money in researching of any kind of technologies to its marketable. the result was the whole PC Engine linup with all its funny but also usable add ons and oddities! nowadays, we are all so thankfully for that great period of history! ray:
They're somewhat expensive compared to a used Famicom, but you can still buy Titlers new for ~$200 if you have patience, maybe even less. They're not really all that rare, there should be a handful on YJ at any given time.
Yeah, so anytime I hear people speak of hunting down PC-10 boards, or desoldering SharpC1 TVs, or something so extreme, I laugh. There is a much easier way. Extra time spent looking for a Titler is stress saved from desoldering entire PPUs.
I was checking over on NESDev, and came across a homebrew BIOS by Oliver Achten for the PlayChoice10 that allows it to run NES carts. 10 game multi changer NES. Smashing. But this still won't fix the problem with the dodgy PPU colours, will it? So a FamiTitler is the Famicom with the best output as standard, ever? Anyone here with the required kit able to give it a go?
The Titler still has the slightly dodgy palette as the other RGB PPUs, but I'd say it hardly matters once you get down to playing the games. There are even controls to adjust the hue and brightness (and so on) for the composite output inside the Titler, as well.
If anyone plan to RGB mod a NES/Famicom, then this thread over at gamesx does a pretty good job explaining the issues: http://nfg.2y.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=1592 CF
I'm finding it rather funny that people are worried about 'dodgy palettes' given they're going to be outputting to NTSC anyway. There's a reason it's called Never The Same Colour... Stone
How are they going to be "outputting to NTSC anyway"? RGB out, RGB into monitor.. nobody has discussed using the Titler's encoded video. There is absolutely no sense in bashing NTSC, particularly around NES consoles. Whether you like it or not, Nintendo chose to model their palette on the NTSC system. That "washed out" composite video from a NTSC console is the only way to view NES as far as I'm concerned because I can't endure the rediculous saturation of PAL or RGB entries. NTSC may be "never (twice) the same color" but for NES PAL is "puke a lot" (at the fugly color or "picture always lousy" in general.
Just thought I'd mention a few things, mainly concerning the "inverted colors" on the PC10 boards, and the "inverting of the color emphasis bits". If the colors appear inverted on your PC10 board, it's because most of the old Nintendo arcade boards have a video amplifier that sends an inverted signal to a monitor that accepts inverted signals. But the PPU itself does not produce these inverted colors. I found a simple way to modify vs. boards to have non-inverted output, simply by adding 6 resistors (3 if you only intend to use it for a single monitor); I haven't tried this mod on a PC10 board, but I'd imagine it can be modded the same way. Now about the color emphasis bits - what they do on the RGB PPUs is they force the red, green, and/or blue channels to full brightness, affecting every color. The composite PPUs on the other hand add a weak red, green, and/or blue color to the screen and darken the luminance values of certain colors - except for colors xE and xF (these are unaffected). I've heard that some games use all 3 emphasis bits. While this simply darkens the picture on the composite PPU, it unfortunately makes the screen on an RGB PPU go solid white - not a good thing. This, along with some bad colors, especially 0B and 3B, are reasons why some people frown at the RGB PPU, but for most games I think it looks great.
