To a few people thems fighting words. But I was thinking of the Treasure games I own and play they don't really stand out. Ikaruga is a well basic VERY VERY basic shmup. It's good I like it I've beaten it which is something but I don't really think it's a Be all end all. Gunstar Heroes.....I dunno what's so great running around shooting things? It's just another contra clone to me. The GBA sequel is a bit more fun but...again doesn't stand out. Even though they aren't bad games they just are sorta there. Bangai O stands out only because it's so nutty I do enjoy me some Bangai O The GBA Astro Boy game they did wasn't all that great. That's it off the top of my head. These are only the games I've played too there are still a ton they made I never did play. I mean this is all just my opinion but I'm sure other people think they're overrated. So does anybody else think treasure is overrated? Is there some awesome game they made I'm missing the boat on that doesn't have Radient in it's name? Anywho I need to get in hiding I'm sure the hardcores will be calling for my head.......
Treasure does seem a bit overhyped but I do enjoy some of there games. I think the Treasure team has some really talented programmers. If anything you can at least give them credit for trying to be somewhat innovative, even if those innovations aren't always that great. To me Gunstar is superior to Contra. I think the characters are alot more interesting and have more personality. Also seems to have better variety of levels than any of the Contra's. Gunstar would probably be my favorite Treasure game, closely followed by Dynamite Headdy, which you should really check out since I don't see it mentioned above. Guardian Heroes and the Saturn version of Silhouette Mirage also stand out to me as some of Treasures better games.
Guardian Heroes is one of the best in it's genre and has great replay value, Sin & Punishment felt rather new back in the day and I enjoyed it greatly. Yukes was also a great game. What Treasure games have in common, for me, is maybe not innovation coming out the sides but gameplay that keeps you wanting to play and enough innovation to keep it going at a freshpace (Im not familiar enough with the other titles). Maybe you'll not be blown away by each game on first impressions but given time you'll be sucked in. A string of strong (maybe not stellar to everyone) games also created a perception that Treasure has the mida's touch. You can't please everyone all of the time but they sure do please alot.
Do not worry, you are not alone! Treasure's skill seems to be in making games that greatly divide opinion - either way. I mean, Ikaruga has all but gone from the arcades and while you still see someone challenging Garegga to a scrap Silvergun machines are either absent or unused. But yet they are still championed on the consoles. I don't think there are more than a couple of T's games that could be said to be "bad". But their "excellence" seems dependent on preference. I personally find Gunstar a bit dull - easy and short. But Ikaruga is a triumph, despite being the same length and as easy (if you go for time outs on the bosses). Oh and I really don't "get" Alien soldier. I never feel in complete control and even when I am doing well it doesn't quite feel fun for some reason. Anyway, there is no problem with having an opinion on T's games, they are something of an oddity. They have the elements of games that appeal to the "hardcore" but that is not to say all serious gamers will get what they have to offer. Anything by Cave over Treasure any day.
Actually, I disagree. Treasure has been consistently delivering high quality games for a long time. I think release for release, I have enjoyed more Treasure games than any other studio of their size. Gunstar Heroes is a great Metal Slug type running and shooting game. Has it aged well over the years? Not really, but it's still fun and entertaining. Radiant Silvergun and Ikaruga are great shmups. Are they as complex as some of the newer stuff that's out? Not really, but for their time, they were better than most of what was out there. Even their weird licensed stuff like McDonaldland and Tiny Toons are better than typical licensed platform games. Sin and Punishment on the N64 is one of the best N64 games period. The best part about Treasure is that with very few exceptions, most of their games can actually still be found for reasonable prices. That's my opinion.
no, I don't agree. I think they deserve their legendary status. their body of work shows they have consistently made examplary games. they pushed the megadrive to its limits and made marvelous games - Alien Soldier is just stunning, I don't think there's a better looking 16bit game out there.
I still want the sega ages treasure box. and I thought Ikaruga was one of the best until I discovered Cave's shooters. Now my favorite Shmup is ESP Ra De which far as I know never got a home port. Though I do love me some G Darius. But lets take a look at Ikaruga. no power ups, and you flip the ship. It's pretty simple. The game does get insane and approach bullet hell levels and the final boss is a pain in the ass BUT.....you can beat the game with out firing 1 shot....... From what I've seen of Radient Silvergun it seems to fare better but the fact it's like a Bajillion Dollars doesn't really help it's case. I paid $80 for boarder down and was disapointed......RS could be a bigger one.
Yeah, see... this is just wrong, and is a really, really bad game to base your argument on on. Gradius V maybe (but hey, it's just a great Gradius game and doesn't try to be anything more) but Ikaruga is obscenely deep. If you think it is basic, you are playing it wrong. might I ask your best grade for each stage? If you say C, then I might have to ask you to edit your post. Check out these vids and tell me it's basic. Ben Shinobi's replays are always good, so those would be a great place to start. From a programming standpoint, ESPRade is one of Cave's worst. It has a broken scoring system resulting in perhaps the most boring super play in the history of shooting games. Design-wise it's great. Junya Inoue = good. He's on board for Cave's next game do out at the end of the year. I personally like Guwange better on all fronts. And neither of them got home ports (nor did Progear, Ketsui, or anything past Ibara). Watch a super play. Weapons which level based on score, and score multiplied by chaining. I'll agree it's not everyone's cup of tea, but this cannot be called basic. If you want to talk about Treasure games that fall short, there are clearly others. Wario World while fun, is a bit meh. Hippa Linda sucks. The Japanese version of Astro Boy GBA blew balls, so they remade it for the US. They make fantastic games when they have the budget to do so. They don't always have the budget. Where do you see this? Hey is the only place in town I've seen both (and they both have people playing them). In their defense, my 50 yen local arcade has 5 Cave shooters (including Ketsui, Mushi Futari & Muchi Muchi Pork) and none of them get even close to the same play time as the 2D fighters.
I've gotten higher than a C in Ikaruga before. but yeah saying it's VERY VERY basic may have a bit of an over statement. It does have depth but in concept it's pretty basic Flip shoot flip shoot fire missles flip ect. But I like my shmups with power ups. I like Guwange too but that cat spider creeps me the fuck out. There's another Cave shooter that has like Funk or Disco music as BGM can't think of the name though.
Even the deepest shooting games are simple in concept. Mushihime-sama for example. It's got power ups, bombs,and all you have to do to score high is chain, right? Yet, here's the strategy guide: http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=62356#62356 Dangun Feveron. Ikeda didn't work on it, and isn't a danmaku. While a great game, some would argue it's only a Cave game in title, not spirit.
Dangun Feveron that's it another fave. Actually there arent many shmups I don't like. the Ray sereis I love, Darius er........ok not ALL of Darius but everything from Darius Twin on I love. Never played a Cave shmup I didn't like. Pskyo and 8ing shmups are awesome too.............BLARG so many. Didn't care much for border down but I haven't really played it all that much. Yeah you're right I guess I have a post to edit don't I........
If there was even one recent title Treasure did right for me, that would be WarioWorld for the GameCube. I found the game very enjoyable, and it felt like I was playing something 2D (although the game is 3d) and addictive. Of course, you can't just set aside Ikaruga and its predecessor, Radiant Silvergun. I m crap at shmups however, so I can't claim i ve finished any of their shooters besides gunstar heroes.
They did Wario World on Gamecube and another personal favorite of mine, Mischief Makers on the N64. I don't think I've ever played a Treasure game that I didn't enjoy.
I've never played a Really horrible treasure game. But nothing really shit pants amazing either. Hence this thread's existance.
I would say yes, Treasure is overrated. Gunstar Heroes did it for me when I first played it in 1994ish, but no other Treasure game has since (I'm hoping Stretch Panic and Wario World still will.) While I think most of the games are above average, none of them deserve legendary status (i.e. Super Mario Bros) or even all the attention (and cash) they get.
Ikaruga is better than 95% of games for presentation alone: -Music doesn't make people that like good music throw up -They pull 3D off in a 2D genre very well (very, very few companies have done this) -Design Then you have: -Replayability out the ass -Fun It's not their fault their fans are obsessive, is it? And no, I'm not that much of a Treasure fan. I suck at Ikuraga and RS both. One day I will devote the time it takes, but that will be a while from now.
Treasure = Overhyped if you ask me. I'm not saying their games are bad nor am I saying everything they make is gold like some magazines would have you believe. Yakumo
GP - Yeah that might have been an Osakan based view - in my favourite game center Garegga saw a lot of action (even compared to Ibara) but I never saw anyone give RS a shot. As for Treasure, I think my problem is when I hear someone rave about Gunstar or other games, I just think that is more variety out there. For example Gunners Heaven or the Guardian Heroes "clone" Panzer Bandit. I know they are somewhat "similar" but I actually prefer the latter to the treasure original. So I think my point is - Treasure is not the peak of gaming. (Although Ikaruga is pretty damn close)
