Upgrading my setup to RGB

Hi everyone!
Ok so I've decided to upgrade the games room from composhite (upscaled) to RGB.

I'm thinking of using DB9 connectors and VGA cable..

I don't know what to use as a switcher, I thought maybe DB9>VGA cable>SCART but SCART is hard to come by here..

I have 9 consoles I want to run RGB on, It would be nice to have each on their own input on a switcher box.

My other option is to use a massive 16 port VGA switch ( http://www.aten-usa.com/products/Pr...witch-with-IR-Remote~VS1601.html#.VilZRvkrKM8 ) But I don't know how they work, I'm hoping it just does dumb bus switching, meaning I can run what ever I want on any pin on the VGA socket...

Consoles to RGB-ify

I'm in PAL land so IIRC some of these consoles already have RGB??

• GameCube
• Playstation 1
• NES
• SNES
• Saturn (model 2?)
• Core Grafx
• Megadrive Model 1
• Sega 32x (How does this work when using a RGB MD?)
• Famicom With DiskSystem
• Nintendo 64

The NES, Famicom and N64 I will just use TimW's boards for those maybe)

So this is how I imagine it working..

Consoles > RGB switcher of some kind > RGB SCART Upscaler > HDMI

I can't afford a framemister (yet)

I'm looking at this upscaler : http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/SCART-HD...356617?hash=item58c1315089:g:GPAAAOSwPhdVCaEH

The end result I want is Upscaled RGB consoles where all I have to do is turn on the TV push some buttons and play.

I don't care about palette mods and stuff like that

 

Don't buy that converter. I have it and can confirm it doesn't process 240p properly. It will display it but it won't look like it's supposed to. It also requires 1V-3V on pin 16 to detect RGB. OzOnE is coming out with a converter in December or January which should be about the same price and it does everything you ever need but better. If you use a VGA switch, make sure it is manual and not automatic, meaning it doesn't need power and it might not mess up with the wrong signals being sent to it.

As for your consoles...

Install GCVideo DVI in your GameCube and use HDMI instead. It's much better quality and you get 480p and 576p (via swiss) support on compatible games. For the PAL games that don't support 480p but their NTSC versions do, use Swiss to force to run in 480p. 480p can run in both 50Hz (with Swiss) and 60Hz whereas 576p (with Swiss) is 50Hz only. PAL GCs do support RGB via the Multi-Out but it is 15KHz and can't go any higher than 480i60 and 576i50 so don't use it. If you really want analog, you can use GCVideo lite to get 31KHz RGB with H-Sync (VGA), V-Sync (VGA), and C-Sync (SCART).

For the PS1, tap RGB from the AV out then get C-Sync from the video encoder or the large test pads on the bottom of the board (750X units only). You can also use RGB with H-Sync and V-Sync to get 15KHz VGA but you will need a scaler like OzOnE's to use it.

SNES depends on your console. PAL consoles are different than NTSC consoles. NTSC consoles have C-Sync on the AV out but PAL consoles do not. You can still get C-Sync on PAL consoles though but I'm not sure what components are needed or where it is on the mobo. If you can't find it, use sync on Luma instead.

For the NES and Famicom, use either Tim's NESRGB board or Kevtris's Hi Def NES HDMI board. Disk system requires no mods as video and all audio except expansion audio is generated and outputted by the Famicom.

For the Saturn, just tap RGB from the Multi-Out. NTSC consoles have C-Sync on the Multi-Out but PAL consoles do not. It should still be on the mobo but if not, use Luma as Sync.

PC-E has RGB and C-Sync on the expansion port. Just tap into those.

For the MD and 32X combo, just tap RGB and C-Sync from the Sega 32X's AV Out. Connect the two consoles together using a stereo patch cable. Should you not have a stereo patch cable and don't want to make on or buy one, run audio separately to a sound system, speakers, or headset using the MD1's headphone jack.

Last but not least, we come to the N64. There are two options: use Tim's N64RGB board or wait for OzOnE's Universal HDMI mod board which has been confirmed working on the N64. Nice thing about the N64RGB is that all of the signals you need are on the board so you don't have to tap signals from the Multi-Out.

Try to run audio through a separate cable and join it at the SCART end. Avoids that hum you can sometimes get. Use C-Sync when possible. If C-Sync isn't available, use Luma as sync. When that isn't available, use composite video and a sync stripper to get C-Sync. Follow this guide (his Saturn diagram is for NTSC consoles) for components needed for each console (minus PC-E, NES/Famicom, and GC). For the NES, PS1, GC, N64, and possibly PC-E, OzOnE's HDMI mod board should work and give you digital HDMI. The picture quality is better than RGB. It has been confirmed working on the DC, GG, N64, GC, and stand-alone Game Boy Player (yes it can run without the GC).

 

Yo LeHaM

- PAL Gamecube is outputing RGB (I've got a DOL-001 EUR) = you need caps and restistors http://i79.servimg.com/u/f79/18/24/19/99/gamecu10.png
- Megadrive and Sega32x are comunicating via RGB, so yeah they both outputing RGB. Once again, you need caps and resitors http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/mega2.png
- SNES outputing RGB too. Becarfull with the resistor only for PAL system http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/snespal.png
- Playstation is ok too. http://forum.wda-fr.org/download/file.php?id=1742
- Saturn should be also ok. http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/saturn.png

- CoregrafX need a slight modding to output RGB: http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/pc-engine-rgb-mod/ and http://www.mmmonkey.co.uk/core-grafx-rgb-mod/
- NES' not outputing RGB, (and no, even the French PAL on doesn't, it's some sort of fake RGB with a Sony V7021 which somehow converts composite to RGB) so you need to mod it,
- Famicom+FDS, same thing, you need a RGB board.
- the N64 doesn't output either RGB even on PAL. The mod will depends on which encoder you have Inside. If you have a VDC-NUS well you are lucky, sir. If not you need the board from Tim,


Hope that helps,

 

I currently use that VGA switch (Aten VS-1601) in my setup, and it has to have a fairly decent csync signal level in order to work. Composite video won't work. A 1v ptp csync signal won't work either. It uses this to sense whether or not an input is active. It is a powered switch.

I can confirm the following NTSC consoles work on the Aten with RGB: NES (NESRGB), SNES, Genesis Model 1, Saturn Model 2, Dreamcast, Turbo Duo-R (using Tim Worthington's AV Driver), Sega Game Gear (GGTV), Sharp Twin Famicom (NESRGB). I made my own cables by re-purposing a single end on various VGA cables.

I believe my THS-amped N64 works on it as well, but I rarely use the N64.

As you are in PAL land, you aren't natively going to have csync out with your SNES or N64. I believe the Saturn also uses its extra pin for 9v instead of csync when it is PAL. MonkeyBoyJoey's mention of the ozone universal HDMI is a good one. The future of N64 via HDMI may actually make me want to play and collect for the console...

The bottom line is - Unless you are willing to start doing internal console mods or using external LM1881 chips inside your cabling to get a strong, clean csync signal, a bulk of those consoles aren't going to gel with that switch.

 

I also use the Aten VS-1601 and the only console I've ever had issues with is N64 - Older motherboard revisions output csync and work perfect when plugged directly into my RGB Monitors, but won't work through the Aten without a sync stripper; I use luma as sync and have an LM1881 right in the VGA head.

Also, the switch won't accept luma as sync without a sync stripper. Overall I REALLY like the switch. It's really small and I've never had any problems with it at all. I actually have a spare I'm about to put up for sale if anyone wants it.

 

Good lad, RGB is the best choice for pre-generation 6 consoles, and even then, 31KHz RGB is the best option for the Dreamcast.

 

thanks for all the replies everyone :3
I'm probably going to slap DB9 connectors on all the consoles, except for maybe the PS1 and Gamecube.
So getting sync could be done internally.

Anyone know of any 8+ port VGA switches that are dumb, no auto detection? Or I could mod the switcher to think all inputs are active?

Any suggestions on a cheap RGB scaler, that supports 240p?

thanks guys

 

I'd suggest sticking with SCART myself. I've only ever found one SCART cable in the wild in California but the fact that you can get pretty much everything you could want with SCART makes life easier in the long run.

But if you're dead set on DB-9 you're going to want to look for serial rather than VGA dumb switches. Should be some out there.

 

hmm ok..
but I am yet to find a SCART swith with more than 8 ports..
I'd rather not daisy chain them (it has to be drunk proof )

 

I wouldn't want to daisy chain them either but then again my setup is a pair of Sony PVMs and I don't currently have the need to have more than one console hooked up at once (nor can I really without a switch and dedicating a room to such a purpose).

With the GameCube having HDMI output, the N64 shall soon, I'm using RGB as a fallback as eventually HDMI will be put aside for other standards and we will either have to build new devices to capture digital data and upscale it or upscale the RGB lines again.

 

I'd rather just use RGB from the N64 and Gamcube, easier to have all the older consoles on RGB to HDMI . Cheaper too!

 

Ok so I couldn't find any serial switchers but I did (hopefully) find a 8 port mechanical VGA switch, looks like it uses gang switches running on a bus bar (like my composhite switcher).
http://www.aliexpress.com/item/Free..._73_74_75,searchweb201527_2,searchweb201560_9

 

RGB is not cheaper. The only way it is cheaper is if you have a RGB monitor. The N64RGB mod for a PAL console costs $40AUD. The GameCube HDMI mod is only $66 USD for the FPGA and FPGA programmer needed for it. A Converter and RGB SCART cable will cost you at least $80 and you won't get 480p or 576p on the GameCube. The only good GameCube RGB SCART cable I know of is the official one, and that can go for $40+ USD used and loose.

The PAL GC's native RGB output is 15KHz and can only do 240p, 288p, 480i, and 576i, meaning the video quality isn't good. You can build GCVideo lite (clone of the component cable) and use that to get 31KHz RGB SCART which supports 480p and 5760p for a bit cheaper should you really want analog on a modern console. GCVideo DVI will give you lots of options including scanlines, linedoubling 240p/288p to 480p/576p and digital audio.

 

I'm planning on going RGB for the rest of the consoles, so RGB on the N64 isn't too bad of a price for me
I'm building my own cables using DB9 (except for cheaper consoles like PS1 where the cables are dirt cheap).

However I will probably get a GCVideo lite, all I want is RGB, I don't want any extra features like scanlines or the like (plus scanlines don't work on youtube for some reason...)
I want all my older consoles running through the same video system, I have a limit on HDMI inputs on my set up..
I've broken my AV set up into sections like this:

HDMI
VGA ~ VGA to HDMI
Component ~ soon to be component to HDMI
Composite ~ Composite to HDMI
*RGB ~ RGB to HDMI

So If I want to play say the N64 (or other older console), turning it on would be quite logical ( I hope) like this:

TV on > Receiver set to HDMI (1) > RGB Upscaler > Switcher input 1 > N64 ON

If I want to play the Xbox or PS2:

TV on > Receiver set to HDMI (2) > Component Upscaler > Component Switcher input 1 > PS2 on

I'm a bit silly but in my head I find it a bit more easy to understand (remember other people should be able to use this set up too).. Kind of like a flow chart, which is what I'm going to have printed on a poster next to the whole TV set up.

I hope my crazy idea makes sense :3

 

When you get a GCVideo lite, set the jumper to RGB mode. From there, you will get RGB with H-Sync, V-Sync, and C-Sync. This gives you RGB SCART and VGA. Github is located here. It has a list of all the parts you need.

 

Still looking for a upscaler that can do 240p RGB

 

That would be the Framemeister XRGB mini or OzOnE's upcoming scaler board (not the same as his HDMI mod board).

 

Yeah, if you're getting a RGB setup and you using a modern tv, you NEED a XRGB-mini. Yes, I know it's expensive, but the results are amazing. Sharp pixels and none of the typical HDTV upscaling issues (i.e shimmering around sprites).

Aside from that, many consoles have built-in RGB support. All you need is the cable! Make sure to buy a good quality cable, most of the 3rd party ones are junk. I get all my cables from the eBay seller retro console accessories (http://m.ebay.ca/sch/retro_console_accessories/m.html?isRefine=true&_mwBanner=1) their cables are excellent.

 

+1 for retro_console_accessories from me too. They make really good cables. They sell one that is for the Genesis/MD 2 and 32X that uses C-Sync and has no jailbars. I have it and it's amazing on my 32X!

 

-1 from me for retro console accessories. I've bought a few of their cables and the shielding isn't very good and I've found the picture exhibits ghosting and colour bleeding. I recommend retrogamingcables.co.uk, their stuff is amazing. I got a euroSCART to XRGB Mini adapter from there and it has a sync stripper built in with no external power source required as it takes its power from pin 8 on the SCART cable, which usually tells the input source what aspect ratio to display.