Was the Atari 'MIRAI' going to be a NEO GEO AES Clone ??

while browsing through some webpages on Atari, I came across some interesting info & speculation about an Atari prototype console called 'MIRAI'. this is not to be confused the MARIA (or MARIE) which was the project codename for the much older, early-1980s-designed Atari 7800, and was also the name of 7800's graphics processor.

The MIRAI is something else. It was either a late 1980s or early 1990s project--which would put it in the same timeframe as NeoGeo MVS & AES development (1988-1989) or shortly after SNK's hardware was released (1990).
The MIRAI was probably originally going to be an Atari 16-bit console based on the internals of some version of the Atari ST computer. This would've been before the so called "64-Bit" Jaguar, and even before the 16bit|32bit 'Panther'. or maybe even in parallal with the Panther. but definitally not the same project as the Panther.

The Atari MIRAI is styled liked the Atari XE ~ XEGS and had an apparently massive cartridge slot.....massive cartridge slot for....what..... is the big question

so far, I have found the following pics and info on the Atari MIRAI console, and more importantly, speculated Atari MIRAI connections to the SNK NeoGeo.

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http://www.atarihq.com/museum/miscatari/mirai.html

ATARI MIRAI

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http://www.videogex.com/hotstuff.htm

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http://www.cyberroach.com/cyromag/two/woa.htm

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http://www.atari7800.com/html/documents_articles_10.htm

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http://darkwatcher.psxfanatics.com/console/mirai.htm

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Atari Mirai display unit
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http://www.atariarchives.org/cfn/12/03/0061.php

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http://www.atarihq.com/othersec/mail/archives/1999/0304.html

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http://www.atarihq.com/othersec/mail/archives/2001/0304.html

Okay, it is a well known fact that Atari had a deal in the works with Nintendo in the 1983-1984 timeframe, to bring the Famicom to the America under the Atari name. without going to the history of that, it all fell apart and Nintendo went their own way.

It is a much lesser known fact that Atari was, one way or another, trying to acquire the Sega Genesis. Yeah, the Sega Genesis almost became the Atari Genesis, sometime in the late-1988 to early 1989 timeframe, before Sega introduced the Genesis to America itself at Summer CES 1989.

So, I think it is very very very reasonable that Atari was in discussions with SNK in the 1989-1992 timeframe to either bring the NeoGeo over to the U.S. under the Atari name (in 89-90 obviously, before SNK did it themselves) or, make some sort of NeoGeo clone in the early 1990s, even after SNK introduced their NeoGeo AES.

 

Facinating.... I had no idea that Atari and Neo Geo ever worked together.

 

neither did I, until last year when I first saw the above articles

 

the 4th picture had some text under the mirai unit any chance we get a bigger picture to read that ?

 

Some info on the name. I take it that when they wrote Mirai they were refearing to the Japanese word which when translated in to English means FUTURE.

Yakumo

 

Man, whoever has that Mirai case must be quite the collector, because in one of the pictures, you can see a Cosmos!

 

I just realized something. the MIRAI seems to be a system that Atari was trying to get together fairly quickly, unlike the Panther and Jaguar projects that each took a few years to develop. the MIRAI was almost certainly a console that was based on something else. something that had already been made. Atari ST, or NeoGeo chipsets. the chipsets for these had already been designed. the ST by Atari themselves (correct me if Atari did not make the various ST chipsets) and the NeoGeo MVS ~ AES had been developed by SNK.


the MIRAI could've been either of these (ST, Neo) in a new case. not too much unlike the Sega SG-3000 computer that was used as the basis for the Sega Mark III and Master System consoles. or the Fujitsu FM Towns workstation was used as the basis for the FM Towns Marty console, or the Amiga A1200 was used as the basis for the Commodore CD32.

the point is, MIRAI seems to be something that Atari was trying to rapidly cook up to counter Sega, NEC and Nintendo (and other) new consoles of the late 80s and early 90s. the thing is, there is NO WAY an Atari ST based console could compete with these newer systems, but, someone else's hardware most definitally could have



special note to the Assemblergames Forum community, not appearing elsewhere on the web in the other, near-identical Atari MIRAI threads: You guys have some exellent resources & connections that I do not have. you guys find prototypes and know people within the industry, I do not. My speciality...my strength (haha, not really!) is in remembering stuff that I read ages ago (magazines before the internet, and webpages on the internet in more recent times) and I have tje willingness to hunt around the web, piece things together, and speculate a whole lot ^__^

together, Assembler Forums and GigaDrive, can acomplish a whole lot! ....ahem.... j/k!!!! you guys do so much, i am nothing ^__^

 

Atari has a long history of getting ahold of, or trying to get ahold of someone else's technology, and making it their own.

1.) Nintendo Famicom - Atari would bring the Famicom or NES to America. failed. well-known.

2.) Epyx Handy color handheld. developed from 1985 to 1987 (or 87 to 89). Atari bought it outright. the Epyx Handy became the Atari Lynx. well-known.

3.) Sega Genesis - Atari tried to get the rights for the Sega Megadrive ~ Genesis and have it as the Atari Genesis in America. failed (thank God!). not very well known

4.) Flare II - Jaguar. Flare was some hardware developer in the 1980s. the Flare I | One was a prototype computer. that was developed into the unreleased Konix Multi System (aka Slipstream) which would have been the first 16-Bit console developed outside of Japan. after Konix tanked, there was the Flare 2| II |Two. this second generation Flare technology was sold to Atari and that was developed into the Jaguar. it is also possible that Flare I | One had something to do with the earlier Panther, but I am not clear on that. this is somewhat well-known but *very*confusing, between Flare I, Konix, Panther, Flare 2, Jaguar. undoubtedly, I do not have the story quite straight.

speculation:

I am thinking & speculating & guessing that perhaps between Atari's failed acquisition of the Sega Genesis in late 80s and the development of Flare 2 into the Jaguar in the early 90s, the Atari-SNK deals ~ developments were probably brewing--even as Atari was simultaneously working on the Panther. An Atari Neo Geo (MIRAI) would have been a better option for Atari than the Pather, IMO. The Panther was originally only somewhat more powerful than Genesis & SNES, but had weaker audio than SNES. the Panther was originally a 16-Bit console but later re-emerged as 32-Bit machine, before being scrapped altogether in favor of the Jag.

more speculation: NeoGeo better than the early 16-Bit Panther. however, the 32-Bit Panther might have been roughly equal to, or slightly stronger than, the 16-Bit NeoGeo. but by the time the Panther had been re-developed into a 32-bit machine, the then next-gen Flare 2 ~ Jaguar technology was nearing completion. thus Atari launches in Jag in late 1993 in a limited release, and finally nationwide in 1994.

 

Yes exactly. some of the articles I posted in this thread mention just that. and... I have read that the name NEO GEO means NEW WORLD.

NEO GEO = 'new world' ~ MIRAI = 'future' ....hmmmm. perhaps there was a reason for this?


also,
referring to Mirai, VanillaThunder writes:

.....in reply to my MIRAI thread on Neo-Geo.com general discussion.

 

Interesting stuff. It's possible that they could have originally planned on making an Atari ST-based console and then joined up with SNK and changed the project to this Neo-Geo clone, as they both used the same processor (Motorola 68000) and possibly even some other similar hardware. Even it that didn't happen, the Neo Geo probably did appeal to them because of its use of the 68k which they were already familiar with because of the ST.

Then again, *A LOT* of systems around the late 80s/early 90s used the 68k (or its variants) as the CPU, e.g. the MD, Amiga, CPS, Mac's, so it could have just been a coincidence...

 

I agree with you Zilog. in my above speculation, I was kind of leaning in that direction, but didn't say it outright that MIRAI changed from an ST-based console to a NeoGeo based console. but basicly that's what I meant anyway. I think that the 68000 being the central CPU to both ST and Neo adds a little bit of fuel to the fire, although as you said 68000 was used in many many different gaming and non gaming platforms during the 80s and early 90s. one thing is fairly clear, MIRAI was not really its own architecture. it would've been basicly an ST or modified ST in a box, or a licensed NeoGeo for the United States.

 

Mirai?

SNK....the future is now

Fascinating stuff.

 

dang, i forgot about that 'SNK the future is now'

Mirai = Future.

....more fascinating than i at first realized.

 

Sharing the m68k doesn't mean anything. It's like saying that the BBC had something to do with the Famicom because they both shared 6502 CPU's... until there's something a little more concrete than a name, there's nothing really behind behind these speculations. They're interesting anyway, btw - don't get me wrong, I've enjoyed both of your threads along these lines. Just trying to point out that a few shared words/chips don't mean that much.

 

The Mirai was not a Neo Geo clone. This comes straight from SNK. I was surprised to get a reply so fast, Not to mention getting a reply over the weekend.

(Names and email have been changed)

-----Original Message-----
From:
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 4:21 AM
To: info@snkplaymoreusa.com
Subject: A question about the Neo Geo's history?


Hello,

My name is A. Snow and I belong to a forum that primarily deals with rare and prototype systems. A while back a discussion was brought about the relationship between SNK and Atari during the early nineties and a photo (which I have attached) was posted of an Atari prototype system called Mirai. This unit looks suspiciously like it could be an Atari version of the Neo Geo AES. It was also theorized that Atari was going to handle distribution in the US of the Neo Geo. Both of these theories are popular among many other collector and enthusiast websites as well.

Would it be possible for you to confirm or deny this and put the issue to rest once and for all this. Was the Atari Mirai a prototype Neo Geo AES? Was SNK at one time in discussions with Atari to distribute the Neo Geo in the US?

I realize that SNK-Playmore is not exactly the same company as the SNK of the nineties. It has survived much better than Atari though so I'm hoping that someone here worked at SNK back then. If you are unable to answer my questions would it be possible to put me in contact with someone that could possibly answer them? Thank you for your time and any help you may be able to provide.

A. Snow,

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Subj: RE: A question about the Neo Geo's history?
Date: 3/5/2005 3:48:58 AM Pacific Standard Time
From: snkmail@snkplaymoreusa.com
To:
Sent from the Internet (Details)


A. Snow,

I will ask around. Do understand that the original founder of SNK, Mr. Kawasaki, is the same Chairman today. Although the company does not have every employee since we began in the 1970’s, it does have many that have been here 15 years or more and many that were involved with NES, MVS and AES.

www.SNKPLAYMOREUSA.com

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Subj: RE: A question about the Neo Geo's history?
Date: 3/6/2005 6:13:39 PM Pacific Standard Time
From: snkmail@snkplaymoreusa.com
To:
Sent from the Internet (Details)


The answer is no. I got my response from Japan. Actually Atari once asked SNK to sell their Jaguar in Japan in the early 1990’s.

The founder of SNK is the Chairman of SNK PLAYMORE. There is much to tell about our history but let it suffice to say that we are the original SNK.

Good night.

 

hmm, Interesting stuff. So what is that Mirai machine then? Looks like Atari may have been attempting to make their own arcade home system in the same way that SNK did with their Neo Geo.

Yakumo

 

well, I do not in any way pin it all on the fact that the Atari ST and NeoGeo both had a 68000 CPU. that would be ridiculous since *dozens* of platforms/formats used the 68k. I only said I agreed with Zilog Jones who mentioned they both had the same CPUs--it was just another thing.

nor do I base a possible Mirai-NeoGeo connection on a few words.

I base the possible Mirai-NeoGeo connection on, among other things, the following:

1.) the massive cartridge slot that Mirai had.

2.) the fact that Atari sought after the technology of other companies or development teams, numerous times: Nintendo Famicom, Amiga(?), Epyx Handy (LYNX), Sega Genesis, Flare One (Panther) Flare 2 (Jaguar), and probably at least several others that I've forgotten about or am unaware of.

3.) the websites that, long before my thread, came up with that Mirai = NeoGeo speculation based on several factors.

4.) Atari's need to get a 16-bit console together quickly, before the Panther and Jaguar would've been ready.

5.) the fact that SNK's U.S. office was right next to one of Atari's offices, and the reports that Atari and SNK worked on 1 or more undisclosed projects.

 

But if it's not a Neo-Geo clone...what is it? Anybody have any new Ideas? Perhaps it was a version of ST made to take carts?

I'll post a link on Atariage, and see if anybody has any suggestions.

 

That's still very likely. Wonder why they decided on using such big cart's though? Or maybe the slot was designed for add-ons too, like a floppy or CD-ROM drive, or something stupid and expensive.

Yeah I know it probably didn't mean anything, but there was that possibility. Comparing the BBC Micro and Famicom just because they used the same CPUs would be getting silly. The Famicom was developed by one of the biggest toy/card manufacturers in Japan; the BBC was knocked up by two guys in a shed in Cambridge... and the FC used the custom Ricoh 2A03 anyway...

 

... which is just a 6502 with an added sound circuit, iirc

Anyway according to the company themselves -