Anyone who is feeling particularly uneasy with illegal MP3 downloading of favourite, well known and major music artists are being given the opportunity to register with We7 (www.we7.com) an entirely new site co-founded by legendary producer/musician Peter Gabriel. The thinking is that record executives are clearly having to accept that downloads are free to everyone with Internet access, so taking on illegal distribution could be turned on its' head. Why not actively encourage it? In the past you have seen a variety of sites that allowed you to "view" music rather than download it, but according to Peter Gabriel they are suggesting that so long as you accept a maximum of 10sec advertising on the first few outtings of each downloaded track (clearly how they are pushing the site) then you are welcome to grab as much material and share it as much as you like. As it's not officially meant to launch until next month (July 2007) then it is seriously limited in terms of the material and users, yet Peter Gabriel was the driving force behind 2 of the most successful music / MP3 search facilities in Europe prior to selling them and it is being hailed as revolutionary by the industry. Of course, they would. It means suffering adverts, but at least as it grows you can probably enhance your collection knowing that Lars Ulrich isn't busting your balls! Let's see whether it grows as well as previous sites Gabriel has invested in. Or whether the lables and executives get worried when users start to fill the database! The last thing I'd want is a huge pile of adverts on my HDD.
10 seconds of adverts per track? That would drive me crazy. Don't get me wrong, I think it's an interesting plan, and in terms of finding "that one track" it might come in handy some day. It's also good to see record companies at least try and adapt to the realities of digital distribution. But as a genuine source of music, this isn't even competition for iTunes, there's just no way I'd put up with advertising every few minutes.
I want to see how it works as it was being pitched that the 10sec advert had a life span of only the first few listens. I'll let you know. Suffice to say one of Gabriels previous projects was as an add onto iTunes and it worked really well, so I'm keeping an eye on it and thought it might also interest others here. Digital distribution in record labels was something I personally thought would benefit the labels once they found a means of making it work for them. I agree "it is about time" and let's see.
Alchy, just got my registration email from We7. Downloaded a few Herbie Hancock tracks and at present you have a 3 second announcement prior to the track kicking in "The Time to We7 is now..." Hmm, I bet record labels scrape right to 10 second maximum and it really could be a pain every time you listen to these. If this is acting in a typical manner I'll count how long it takes for the intro ad to be dropped off (if indeed it does as they suggested in their blurb elsewhere).
So you can dowload the MP3 but it has 3 seconds of ad at the beginning? how long until theres a bit of software that strips the ad from the mp3..
Clearly, I am looking at a piece of editing software that would do that. It converts the MP3 into a waveform that is viewable in a time strip. As the initial advert fades you can put a punchmark in and strip out the material prior to that point and save the file unless they've added something to the beginning of the track to stop that happening. Doubtful, but I am sure that the very first question posed by very dubious record industry guys was precisely what you (and I) asked. Currently only available for the Mac OS in this form, but I am looking for a Win version. http://www.deepniner.net/mp3trimmer/ I'm also trying out the theory that the ad disappears after you have played the track a number of times. I can't see how they could do that. I think the guy talking about it misunderstood what the site organisers had said. Anyone familiar with MP3 encoding and know how it would necessarily do this? Was the TV guy talking bollocks I wonder?
et voila! http://www.mptrim.com/ I wonder how long before We7 realise they have an issue with having plonked it into the intro? If they really wanted to stop people doing something as simple as this, they should have considered ensuring that the track had a fade in/out ad embedded into the first bar of the track, but then real music lovers would simply move onto a site that was illegal and downloaded the real thing....for free. Oh dear, I just tried it out and it played in iTunes immediately so there is nothing to stop this timming from just deleting off the initial advert. Ooops! Obviously, I am not condoning this, I am merely pointing out that We7 is an excellent idea, a site with great potential and has a slight issue. Surely they'd have considered this as a possibility?
Parris: what a load of double standard you got there, you have just done it, to your own files. And then you don´t condone it ? heck, just like the pirate raid. That was in the other thread.
That service would be great for helping me find random songs I've heard but don't want to buy a cd thinking it's the right one when it was a cover band version I'm looking for (it has happened before).
WDK: Not double standards at all. I emailed the site and informed them of precisely what I had done, what I used, where I got it and how easy it was. I tested it on 1 track and was amazed to find it worked. I've used their feedback forum to express my concern at how straight forward finding a means of getting around their idea was. Genuinely, I thought they'd have tampered with the MP3 in someway to ensure it could not be done. As someone who has produced music in the past I am always trying to find new music sites and this seemed like a great idea...in theory! Now, you could say "Well, Parris you have told everyone" but if you look at the very first thing The Steadster says, it was precisely the first thing I thought and there is no way that nobody else didn't immediately assume it could be done either. If you wish me to take the links out of the software that does it, then fine, but Google threw these up in less time than it took to actually trim the title. There is no condoning of illegal piracy or practice here after all the MP3 downloads were.... free and nothing in their site suggested that altering the adverts in any way was against membership or any rules. The artists are STILL PAID as it's payment by the download! Nobody is sitting in my livingroom saying "Turn the volume up for the first 3 seconds dude, otherwise this is illegal!" or "unless you pay attention to the advert, this isn't yours". The artists are getting paid irrespective. However, I bet the advertisers would be pissed at learning how straight forward this would be to circumvent! Anyone here more familiar with MP3 encoding out of interest as I wondered whether anyone had any suggestions to offer them?
LOL : WDK !! Look.... "If you want a track that is free, legal, safe and the artist gets rewarded then we add the ad. However, you don't have to have the ad forever, as with We7 technology, after a period of time (4 weeks) you will have the choice to have the track 'ad free'. So, enjoy We7 and the new digital music download model" I missed this on my first visit... 4 weeks and the advert disappears, cool huh! Now it looks like a good idea! :thumbsup:
Huh. I was assuming they'd have their own DRM-ridden file format. If their downloads are simple MP3s then there's no way they can prevent you from just clipping off the stuff you don't want. Creating a batch process to do this is absolutely trivial. Next question, what bitrate are the files? No way I'm putting up with 128kbit.
Well, my initial thought was that the ad would actually be faded out over the fade in of the track by a minimum of a bar or two to ensure you couldn't just clip them off as they do on commercial radio, but they are all straight forward. Presumably as the site is paying the artist by the download and so long as the file was sent with the ad they'll not know any different. However as the advertiser in this instance is paying for the whole process this will definately be something they put a stop too. One of the things I did notice is that they are keeping a really tight eye on the material that is downloaded and creates a file. It must be something akin to the MSN Live messenger share folder. That means your friends & aquantances can be sent a link to the share folder and download the same material. Nope, it's DRM free so that's a bonus! Sadly 128Kbps / 44.1Khz, which isn't an issue if you are just listening through a laptop like I am right now but 256Kbps through a nice stereo or near-field monitors sounds a damned sight nicer it has to be admitted, but any compression sounds glaring to me. I guess it depends on the listener. I certainly notice the difference but a few people I know can't tell the difference at all.
Yeah, the rest of my family wouldn't have a clue, most of my sister's MP3 collection is 128kbit. For stuff like chiptune it's not that noticeable, but for just about everything else I end up spending more time listening to the tinny highs and flat lows, it just kills the music for me. Let me know when they start offering >192, eh.
Perhaps as the number of users / advertisers increase and the revenue piles in (they have a sweet 50/50 deal on download profits) then I suspect they'll improve quality on demand from users who actually have an ear. I'm surprised Peter Gabriel let it through at 128Kbps actually, knowing what a perfectionist he is. That said, one particular track he released a while back drops out halfway through just for a split second and actually sounds like it stretched on the tape spool. Maybe the master DAT got damaged or something before they could commit it. You can hear a tiny change in tone & tempo so I've often wondered whether they spliced two performances. Nobody else seems to hear it, but like the bum note on Eric Claptons live unplugged album, it renders it unlistenable for me.
Interesting. That does that mean that you'd get an opportunity to download a separate ad-free file after 4 weeks, or that the file somehow expires the ad part after 4 weeks? I'm guessing the former, though someone did once show me an mp3 file that appeared to have a limitation to how many times it could be played when I looked at it's metadata - no idea how they'd do that, though... Peter Gabriel's apparent involvement is a plus for me - I've got a lot of respect for the guy. The minus, is the targeted advertising - if this is kept to only the mp3 file & not pushed through mail/email then it's not so bad, I guess. As already pointed out, a higher bit rate would be much desired - mp3 files are super-convenient, but I recently started going back to my vinyl collection & was blown away by the difference...:020:
Yeah they are saying that the system can be "tuned" (pardon the pun) in order to deliver specific advertising that is applicable to the user. I.e. at least a 35yr old male like me will not be hearing things about "Tampax Tampons" and the like lol. I can even tell it to stop giving me car adverts! (Now that IS a bonus). Makes me wonder whether you can actually just "tune" it to stop advertising? "No I hate beer, never wear clothes, hate cars, bread is rubbish, dislike male products, never shave...." I'm like you wondering whether the ad actually "expires" but I am not sure what they mean by 4 weeks later on? If you've already downloaded the music, then surely they don't expect you to go and grab an add free version for free? That would be pretty clever really. First of all they'd have more site hits (always good for showing to advertisers, plus it would detect the tracks you are going back for and create pretty accurate marketing stats). It would also ensure the artist was paid another download fee from advertising...putting another 50% cut into their pockets. However a possible issue is how they'd stop you from just selecting a pile of music files, not bother listening to them, go back a month later and get 'em ad free. And that would defeat the purpose once more. Otherwise, what's to stop someone downloading piles of song titles and just waiting (if the ads expire). Either way you look at it, if I were an advertiser I'd be really a tad concerned about ad placement here. What I think the advertisers are counting on are the numbers of people who are not going to know about trimming MP3, are desperate (like my daughter) to hear a track by a favourite artist or material in a specific genre the second it comes out. They want these people to immediately PM / IM / Email their friends a link to (for example) the new "My Chemical Romance" track and have a group of kids hearing targetted adverts. In theory, if they can control it better than we are seeing then it would be quite a good system for artist & advertiser, I'm just not sure I could be bothered with all those adverts between tracks as I bumble along with my iPod. Whether you like the site, the idea or the quality or not. If this works, expect it to become rolled out across the industry board just like previous sites Gabriel has come up with. He was linked to some pretty major industry music distribution points in the past. A lot of major labels will be looking at this very closely. One major benefit I can see is that it may force iTunes store to lower their UK prices, which are the highest in Europe because they charge across the board (i.e. £1 = 1Euro) and thus they have been taken to task over this by the European Commission. A lot of other music sites do the same thing and ignore currency variations. The music industry as a whole has done the same thing to CD sales in the United Kingdom for years, by suggesting that "the UK market is very strong, the listeners are very educated (?) and know good music. They are prepared to pay more". That just doesn't add up in my book. So, if I were less musically educated I'd get my music cheaper? "Hey HMV I loved that last hard core dance track by Beethoven I really digged his effortless bongo playing!"
Argh! I now have visions of naked, hungry, sober, disheveled, hairy Scotsmen wondering about in my head now! *shoots self* Seriously, the marketing suits will always find something to try to sell to you. Certainly, they'll be hawking stuff to you based on your music selections. I'm mostly concerned about them deciding that the mp3 ads aren't enough & them flooding my email with junk (thankfully, they don't require a telephone #). :lol: Simply put - it's what the market will bear. The EU should kick their rears about the pound=dollar thing. The really interesting thing, will be which labels they get to sign up - who's on there now?
I'll get back to you on that one as it looks like Peter Gabriel has not placed his own labels on. It doesn't actually mention him until you go into the "About us" so he isn't pushing Real World records in your face.... at the moment. I agree regarding advertising, but most of the other stuff is optional and there are no "you must click here to accept" our crap!
