What differences between test/dev or demo kits?

I've read loads of topics but still having some questions.
1). What differences between these three kits?
I heard the only difference is that if you will buy a sidecar for test kit you'll not able to use DVD emulation anyway while on dev kits you can.

2). If i will not have DVD emulation feature... will it be really hard to test games? I mean I will have to copy edited files into test kit's HDD every time i made changes? how will I do that, via cable? I know that DVD emulation is the best way to test modified games, but i will not have this feature on my kit, will it be really compicated to test a game which i translate in my language for example?
I need to insert modified files in game's folder and test will the game work.

3). It's not really important for me, just wonder if is it possible to launch xbox1 games from kit's HDD which are not officially compatible by MS' official emulator?

4). I heard that if you want to transfer stuff to its HDD from PC you need SDK.
Is it available freely in the net or what? Is it possible to get it? Does it go with kit or separately?
5). Where can I learn more about those kits, their differences etc?

 

I know some people with Testkits that get errors when trying to DVD Emulate. I know some that work though. However reviewer kits and test kits cannot debug using Visual Studio.

It's not hard. It doesn't take long to copy files over. I had a sidecar for the longest time and never bothered using it. And you do it through Xbox 360 Neighbourhood, which works through the ethernet cable.

Yes, if you obtain backwards compatibility, convert it, hack it, and put it on your console. Good luck with that.

You don't need the SDK. Just Xbox 360 Neighbourhood. And no it isn't.. Don't ask where to get it because no one will tell you. It is indeed possible to get. It's seperate from the kit.

This website. Just next time try to keep all your questions to one topic instead of making two.

 

Is it very bad to miss this ability? What it's good for?

I see. And what sidecar is for? Only for dvd emulation or some more features?

Is that hard?

 

Research of executables and hacking of gamecode.

Used to be for PIX debugging too, but now that goes through the ethernet cable.

I don't know you, I don't know what is considered hard for you.

 

What's normal price for used dev kit? can I buy it for about $800?

 

That's like asking what's the price for a car..

It depends what type of development kit.. It's condition, what it comes with, accessories, etc.. You should be able to find a kit to suit your needs for 800 however..

 

To GamerSuper:Actually,The Xbox 360 Neighbourhood is a part of 360 SDK.It is a shell extention for windows,makes it easier to transfer files between PC and 360.There is a commandline tool in this SDK which can do this job much easier and more stable in copying large amount of files,that's "xbcp.exe".
And officially,the SDK cannot be obtained by individual.

 

Why can't someone copy it for me?

 

Because its illegal. Its like asking for a download to a movie and its different 99% of the people out there won't be willing to give it to you.

 

Why it's not leaked yet? If so many people have it?

 

why than we can post links to betas etc? it's also illegal

 

Frankly.....NOT 4 ITS ILLEGALITY.yes,that's the real reason for most good guys but also a good subterfuge for the others...
Selling develop equipment is also object to the license but it's still active in this forum.Tecnically,if you got a bought a dev kit from the other users here or some one in your local blackmarket,it illegal....keep these user from touch of the newest sdk is good to game console maker like MS.

And more:
1.Console SDK suite is useless to people who do not have development equipment.
2.Most SDK/SDK document is watermarked and easy to be tracked who leaked it.....
3.Can you provide a good reason to leak SDK......4 money?why not selling a devkit with sdk! 4 fun? Not interested by those who have the official SDK resource in hand!

To get a copy of SDK legally,try to become a programmer in game company.That's the shortcut to you


And...gamesuper....if you want to translate a game.....you don't need a devkit.To those games which the message string is hard coded text in source.It will finally embedded in .xex.You cannot modify them and make them run on retail kit because they are signed.To those games keep text as external resource(eg. Resident Evil 5/Bio Harzard 5),you can easyly translate them and remake a retail playable disc without devkit.

 

How incorrect of you. I've had multiple SDKs that included no neighbourhood, and required a seperate install. Of course the new 8276 has it built in, but it wasn't always like that. You honestly think Microsoft would give Reviewers the SDK? No.

SONIC3D.. It is illegal to spread a download to the SDK.. To think otherwise is sheer arrogance with a lack of knowledge on the subject. You would be spreading warez. Betas too cannot be linked to, unless the game company went down and you're the only person with a build, then I heard you gain rights to that build.

Also you don't know much about cryptography do you? External files could easily be RSA signed and put up the same threat as the XEX, being you only have the public key to verify, not the private key to sign, an example of where this happens is Halo 3. Also he'd need to burn a disc for every change he made, even though it's a stupid reason to get a kit, it helps, and he is showing interest in it, so if he wants it, I suggest he get it.

Buying a development kit doesn't have to be illegal at all. It depends on how the development kit was obtained. You as the seller and the buyer may have never seen any NDA you had to agree to. Microsoft or a game company could still attempt to get it back from you, but ultimately, they'd be spending alot of money doing so on consoles they have insurance on and etc.

 

Yeah, that's the problem.

I need it because it's very stupid to burn LOADS of DVD-Rs, waste loads of money and time... While on dev kit I can use DVD emulation. And run games simply from PC folder. That's why I need a kit.

The most of games are translated into Russian illegally. So it's possible to do. But quality of these translations are very poor due to technical reasons.
These games can be sold on illegal discs or be shared in the internet.
I think pirates don't have any kits, they burn DVD+R every time.

About 20-25 games are translated legally, they do it more and more, but still console market there is still poor. That's why we want to do it. I have few cool romhackers who have experience.
And also, on the PC all the games are translated legally. The same games on consoles are not translated. So we can just convert translation from PC to xbox 360.I already converted a couple of games where resourses were not hard.

What about this section?
http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=57

Yeah. that's why I use a kit.

How can they know if I have it?


By the way you can steal a kit from game exthibition. It's hard but I think it's possible.

 

Pretty much your saying, I don't give a shit what you guys think just give me what I want. Thats all I'm hearing.

Xenon.7 I talk to at least every now and again and he knows his stuff so I would listen to him.

Also the File Downloads section of this site does not have the SDK if you look.

-dog-

 

Just found you replied it and seems you are a little angry....maybe there is misunderstanding....

Yes,as a developer I only installed 7 version of XDK(I'm not install it 4 fun,it's for business only),they all have the NH shell extention.I don't like it much,I like command line tool xbcp.And I think most of the XDK build will include this shell extention.

I have never leaked any Beta or SDK of any dev platform,and as an ex-member of the scene.I don't think leak SDK is respectable.

I have said it is impossible to translate a game if there is string in xex as resource or hard coded stuff.It need to be resigned with retail game key.All XEX PE info and signature tech detail is described in XDK doc.Of course the retail private key will never be hold by us unless 2048bit RSA algorithm is overcomed.

:noooo:
If you bought the devkit from MS with legal development license,SELLING IT IS ILLEGAL!
AND MOST CURRENT GEN DEVKIT ON EBAY IS STOLEN!IT IS ILLEGAL.
Trade in forum or trading in your local marketing is OK for researching/collectting purpose.
BUT LICENSE IS LICENSE.
SELLING DEV MACHINE IS NOT ALLOWED BY LICENSE,NOR TO SELLING SDK.THEN HOW CAN SOMEONE OUTSIDE THE DEV SCENE BOUGHT A DEVKIT LEGALLY FROM SOMEONE ON EBAY?

 

You think not possible? I think it's possible but translated game will be playable only on test/demo/dev kit.

It's not problem for Russian pirates/hackers.
GTAIV is hard coded, DMC4 is also hard coded. Yeah, it took very long to crack it but they did it and translated them.

 

Did you understand what I said at all.. XEX's don't need to be the only resource of a game that's RSA signed..

I reiterate my statement... Buying Xbox Development Kits doesn't mean they are stolen or illegal.. You obviously don't have a damn clue about how anything works I can see.

GamerSuper, yes it is.. Notice how the 360 hasn't been hacked yet? I don't think you understand that the only way to crack an RSA signature is to bruteforce it's keys, and in that sense, theres more digits in the amount of combinations you can have than I would fancy typing out.. Maybe GTAIV PC, but thats different because you can remove security checks.. On a 360 it's not been done yet, unless through an exploit.. But that hasn't been talked about publically yet.

 

Checked the SDK doc,seems M$ has not provided a way to allow developer encrypt data with M$ private key(devkit key),so it's not possible to ask M$ to encrypt game resource data for us.M$ kept this encryption scheme to their xex is because it the only possible program code would stay.To avoid talent cracker exploit the retail kit and get valuable info,they limited executable file in this way.Althogh their is other way to exploit the retail kit like shader exploit,This scheme is still proved to be a good way to protect the retail kit from running most homebrew.
Of course,developer can implement their asymentrical encryption scheme in their games and store their public key in .XEX to keep the game resource from being modified easily.It's a good idea but most game dev studio won't do that.We are making games not security ware.We don't want to verify data with additional algorithm before every time we use them.It costs additional buffer.

And about cracking the private key of RSA,there is many way better than B/F.Differential power analysis is one of the most common way.B/F is almost impossible to reveal a 2048 bit private key in our life-time(Unless intel or nvidia develop a much more powerful CPU/GPU in 40 years).But some of the creative algorithm makes it possible.Keep in mind that the more game released in market,the more opportunity for cracker cracking the retail kit key because the SHA-1 hash of the data in XEX is known.So the more games released,the more encryption result opened to public.A good algorithm will finally found what key(private) encrypted the SHA-1 hash and get these result.And especially,to some programmer who has been familiar with the modern algorithm to cracking asymentrical encryption,if they are also involved in XBOX360 game developing,it is possible for to make some special data chunk in their .xex which will efficiently makes the SHA-1 hash be what they want and makes the result of the M$ encryption in retail release of this game be more valuable to cracking the private key.
Trust me,the key will be found......soon.Sooner before we expected.Of course,the 360 is already passed by.And more powerful encryption (maybe RSA 8192bit:110 will be used in the new console.

 

Do you not understand what I'm saying, why the hell would the game company need Microsoft's Private Key when they can use their own keypair.. And you couldn't edit the XEX to remove their checks because that too would be RSA signed..

And on the contrary, the Microsoft private devkit key IS in the SDK, how do you think the XEX's compiled with Visual Studio are signed? Common sense..

I'd assume you read this crap somewhere and just made up thoughts in your head about how everything works.. Because I never said encrypt the resources.. I said you could make a checksum of the resource, encrypt the checksum with a private key of their own, and write it in the header where it is out of the checksum bounds.. The XEX would read the file(wouldn't have their private keypair obviously, asymmetrical as stated), and it would use their own public keypair to verify the checksum on the hash bounded data..

But evidently you're so smart, so why don't you go mod a Halo 3 .map file, which is an exact example of what I'm stating here, and come back to me about how hard you failed.

Oh, and while you're at it why don't you give me a nice formula to crack Microsoft's RSA Private key. Oh wait, that won't be happening..

I see a lot of talk in this topic, and a crippled walk. You seem to think you know a lot about what you are speaking about, but its evident you do not.

So do me a favor, and spare me, and the author, and leave this topic, because all you're doing is making unnecessary commotion over falsifications when the OP just wanted to know development console types.