Where does the Gindows debug library come from?

In the Dreamcast SDK's i have (r9-11b, i think), i cannot find a library file for Gindows. There is one for Nindows.

Gindows and Nindows, as the name implies, are very Windows looking debug user interfaces for use in Dreamcast games.

Where does Gindows actually come from? I've only seen it in Rez so far. Nindows however has popped up in a few places like Sonic Shuffle, beta 836 of Rez, and multiple sdk samples and tech demos (Tower of Babylon, for example).

I'd assume Gindows was internal to Sega due to only seeing it in a Sega game. But i've yet to see it in any other Sega game. Considering how useful it can be, id have expected it to show up in more places, and perhaps it was used in more games and Rez was just an exception and did not have it removed for release.

So has anyone seen a Gindows library in any Dreamcast SDK? And does anyone know if it turns up in other games?

An example of Gindows (3 minutes in):


An example of Nindows (about 2 minutes in):

 

I haven't seen that in any of the SDK, even the japanese ones.
But my guess would be that it is a Sega layer above the Nindows library,
cfr if you look at this page: https://www.unseen64.net/2008/04/10/k-project-rez-prototype/
more particularly, this image: https://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/rez-vibes-beta-dreamcast-000031.jpg
You clearly see "Nindows"...

Another possible route:
Since "Nindows" is a library to add a GUI to Ninja applications, Gindows might be a version for applications that do not use the Ninja library.
Do you have any idea which Sega library Rez used ? (Ninja/Kamui/... ?)

Edit: seems it uses Kamui & Ninja2:
https://www.unseen64.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/rez-vibes-beta-dreamcast-000011.jpg
Nindows 2 seems to be for Ninja2, both only available in the japanese SDK 2.00 as far as I know


As for other games, a page on Shadow the Hedgehog mentions Gindows:
http://info.sonicretro.org/Game_Secrets:Shadow_the_Hedgehog

 

WinCE SDK 2.0 ? is it public available ? I've seen only 2.1 and 1.0

as for topic - I'd guess Gindows is some UGA inhouse-made library

 

It was in beta 836 of Rez, which is the one those screenshots come from. But you can only use either Gindows or Nindows, and the toggle for it seems to have been removed in later builds as the bytes in memory for it are missing but the bytes before it for activating Gindows are still there. Nindows wasn't useful for very much that Gindows didn't already do in that beta, so it's removal isn't too surprising. Gindows also looks a lot nicer in general.

I suppose i'll obtain the japanese sdk's since i don't have any of those right now. I'll also look into Shadow later I guess, and thanks for the information.

 

Not WinCE.
Dreamcast SDK ver. 2.00J (september 2000 I think), the latest known japanese SDK,
just like the SDK 11b (february 2001) is the latest known US/EUR SDK.
(There were some posts about an SDK 12 that Sega would have had internally, but I never saw it)

 

There was a sample in the SDK that showcased or just plainly used nindows, i remember it was a ferrari model with textures and environment mapping and you could check out stuff with Nindows. Maybe it was a plain Ninja sample, i don't have my stuff here now to check it out.

Gindows is probably a variation of Nindows specifically made and used by UGA. As for its popularity with other developers, you can read in the readme files of the SDK that the Ninja library was not supported after a while because nobody was using it, but they decided to let it in nevertheless. Most developers used lower level APIs to build whatever they wanted or adapt their existing engines to the system. Ninja was mostly a collection of high level utilities, like 3D primitive and mesh drawing functions, splines, lighting etc, but not a complete engine in any way nor did it provide very low level hardware access. It was somewhere in between.

The whole reason for providing Ninja/Nindows in the first place, i think, is because Sega probably wanted to offer a very complete SDK for rapid prototyping and development as a response to the criticism they received during the Saturn era. But in the end it was not really used.

 

Yeah I remember that note in the sdk about ninja now, thank you.

I think currently it seems reasonable to assume Gindows was an internal Sega tool, considering it was likely used in Shadow the Hedgehog as well as Rez. Though, UGA was merged into Sonic Team at some point, could be it really was made by UGA and made its way into some Sonic Team games after the merge in 2003? And likely only stuff that used ninja in some capacity? Assuming Gindows is for ninja like Nindows was.

I’ll probably check Sonic Heroes for Gindows leftovers next, after I’ve looked at Shadow. I’m still investigating Space Channel 5 pt 1 and 2.

 

I see, thanks. neither of Japanese SDKs is public, right ?

 

I could play the wise-ass & tell you that no SDK is "public" until Sega releases them themselves,
but no, I haven't seen the Japanese SDK floating around.
(Mind you, I couldn't possibly know everything that can be found on the internet...)