Which "mainstream" 3D console is the most complex to dev for?

Which "mainstream" 3D console is the most complex to dev for?
Given what I have heard/seen (mostly from people trying to reverse engeer/emulate the systems) I would vote for Nintendo 64 or Saturn. Any experts here want to say otherwise?

 

AFAIK, the more difficult system is the Saturn, due to it's 2-processor design. However, seeing as modern computers and consoles have switched over to dual-core processing, it may be much easier to approach than it used to be. The most complex mainstream system is the PS3, but I'm assuming you're trying to 'kick it old school'.

 

How about N64?

 

Sorry, I was implying that the Saturn is more difficult to dev for than the N64 (as in, more difficult to get the same results). Apologies if you didn't get that.

 

No problem mate!

 

AFAIK, it goes (to be really blunt and simple about it):
Saturn: hard
PSX: easy
N64: easier, limited by space
Xbox: easy
PS2: hard
GC: easy
DC: easy
360: easy
Sat: hard

But don't quote me on that

 

I have programmed games on both, and the Saturn was a bit more difficult than the N64, to develop a 3D engine for. On the Saturn I ended up having to write highly optimized SH2 assembly to do the math and setup, to then pass data to the VDP2 for rasterization. The Saturn wasn't really a 3D machine, it just had a pretty neat sprite engine.

On the N64, the RSP made this an easier system to do 3D, but the RDP was not all that powerful to get high polygon counts out of. The rule of thumb was use less polys, but do a lot of texture operations on those polys.

--Selgus

 

I'll vouch for the PS1 being one of the easiest to work on. I was working a 2D game that hardly pushed the system (short of particle effects), but it was sooooo nice to be able to just drop graphics in to this linear 2D image in VRAM, and blit to my hearts content.

Arguably, the handheld systems (except the PSP, and to a degree the DS) were harder to work on. If you weren't coding in assembly (Gameboy/Color, Neo Geo Pocket), you were still working with hardware registers directly (GBA) with technical docs/specs as reference. It's kinda nice actually.

 

Atari Jaguar 16 bit CPU in a world of 32/64 bit co-CPU...

 

well it depends what you want to make really.

 

if you wanna achieve good results, i bet it's the ps2

 

Wouldnt the PS3 with its 8 ( IIRC ) core design probably up there in difficulty as well?

 

i guess..but then again developers are just finding out how to reap the benefits of ps3, was the same when the ps2 first turned up (well at least the ps3 launch titles weren't as jaggy as the ps2 ones..)

 

Spot on mate. That silly method by which the 68000 had bus priority over the RISC chip (so you kept running divide commands to keep it off the bus). The fact that the index registers on the RISC chip didn't work properly. That stupid video chip that could overflow colours.... grrr... oh yes, and the CD drive that didn't have a proper controller so you had to read 10 blocks before & after where you wanted and filter out the actual data!!!! What idiot thought it worth saving $5 to completely destroy the thing. My mate wrote a WHOLE game on it but couldn't get disc reads reliable. Even after it spent 3 months beint tested by Atari, they STILL couldn't get it to work. We got paid because the game worked... it was their machine that had some fault that THEY couldn't fix!!!!

Thinking of Atari, remember the Lynx. Those adverts in the cinema showing the thing. It looked really cool, they showed cool games... then the price came up and everyone a)gasped & b)laughed.
That was also full of bugs (like the sprite decompression needing data to end on byte bounderies) or the serial cartridge! I've seen people write utilities so that the player sprite was the first thing in each bank so it could be copied from ROM to screen per-gameloop! JOKE!!!!

 

The first XBOX, hands down... followed by the Dreamcast.

 

XBox SDK just overwhelmed you with the vast number of functions and amazing detail on things like sound placement. 5.1 is great, but I notices the Gamecube used L,R in front and mono behind. Those 3 streams worked almost as well as full 5.1 with vastly less hardware resources.
The sound was too BIG for the game unless you had a massive TV. I have all Microsoft SDKs since the early ones are crap, the later ones far to fussy.
After all, in essence, the Xbox was just a 733MHz PC running a new OS.
Did people get them working as servers or for render-farms or such. With the second-hand price these days, it would make for an inexpensive render farm, thats for sure.

But, for out and out bug-filled, ill-designed and generally dimwitted solutions, the Atari system wins hands down!!!

 

The PS2 is a bitch for sure.

 

thank you for agreeing with me there assembler. whoever decided that an 8-core cpu would be a good idea should be shot.