WHY can't ps3 slim play p2 games? Money or technical issues?

So another ps3 thread?
Yeah but I wouldn't post this stuff if I didn't find it compelling fodder for conversation.

WHY CAN'T THE MIGHTY PS3 (slim) PLAY PS2 SOFTWARE?

I was thinking this over.
I really try and like Sony. As a kid anything "Sony" was cool. My first cd player was an aiwa, but I wanted that cool new "discman" instead...

Anyhow at the time when the ps3 launched my household was not about to purchase a nearly $700 console when we had bills to pay - after a few revisions and excuses Sony seemingly cut out the ps2 backwards comparability based on technical restrictions.

As far as I understand though the second revision for the ps3 had it's ps2 guts stripped of it and played ps2 games via emulator.

The ps3 slim has the same technical specs with the exception of die and CPU size but should be able to run the same emulator as the second iteration of hardware.

Games like god of war collection, sly cooper collection and other anthologies are great ways to ensure a cool quarter million more units sold of a title recoded for the ps3, but why bother going this far, alienating millions of other worthy titles that Sony no longer profits from in the resale market?

And in that bold text likely sits the real reason why so many ps2 titles sit and wait for a retail ps2 unit to load and play.

Sony still sells the ps2 at retail for $99.99 (USD) and a handful of mainly childrens titles and sports games are still being developed.

The likely profit Sony has on a ps2 this far into production is spectacular, and the sub $100 price is a mental barrier that most people with gainful income can stomach, even if they own a ps3 slim already.

But the loical side argues that the "most powerful" console on the market should be able to run the older software.

A modestly powered PC has been able to emulate ps2 games for years, and the dreamcast didn't do that bad with bleemcast!

Is Microsoft still updating xbox games to play online? Maybe but I honestly don't know. Still, they had nothing to lose as they killed the unprofitable until the end xbox a year after the launch of the 360.

Seems greed is a motivating factor. Love of money.

Maybe the latest developments in ps3-gate will force sonys hand.

But I will make one prediction:

At the end of the ps2, when the last new unit is shipped to retail in the north American and Japanese markets, we will see ps2 finally get "figured out" on all ps3 units via a system update.

Thanks for reading everyone!

 

Aiwa is Sony :nod: > Just like Lexus is Toyota and Infinity is Nissan. Yep, now you know why Aiwa aren't that good :dance:

Yakumo

 

MIND. BLOWN. Sadly, my Aiwa hi-fi is testament to the poor build quality of Aiwa hi-fis in the mid-to-late 90s which doomed the company. According to Wikipedia (which isn't much) Sony have slowly but surely shut down Aiwa to the point that they don't actually make anything any more.

On the bright side at least you're not paying a premium for them.

Anyway, to answer your question lvsteven: the first batch of PS3s could play most PS2 games was because they had the CPU and GPU of the PS2 built into them. Sony then figured out how to partially emulate the PS2's hardware, so it was reduced to just the GPU on the second iteration. Unfortunately, this had a detrimental effect on PS2 software support, something they thought they could rectify but eventually gave up on. All later PS3s (including the slim) removed the hardware entirely, thus stopping support. There *could* be traditional emulation of the PS2, but there is no profit for Sony there, so it was canned.

Instead, the idea Sony have come up with is to provide software for the developers of PS2 games to upgrade their older software to run on the PS3 without having to dramatically change the code - allowing for higher quality textures and crisper models. This is why you're seeing 'Classics HD' collections of Prince of Persia, Splinter Cell, Sly Cooper, God of War, etc. etc. - Sony have gained the ability to make money with PS2 emulation whilst persuading you to replace your old collection. Clever, eh?

 

aiwa = sony, while true doesn't mean internally it might have operated on it's own within the company.

denon, Marantz, Boston Acoustics, McIntosh Labs are all owned by D&M (guess what the D and M stand for?) but they operate independently of each other.

 

There were patents or something like that were filed awhile back for some kind of USB box that seemed to connect to the PS3 and contain PS2 hardware. This could be done to once again support PS2 on all models. While it isn't perfect you can always buy the PS2 Slim as you said. It's certainly better than any PS3 with PS2 support right now.

But there is no technical reason at all that PS2 support couldn't be brought back or built into new models. They cut it to drop the production costs of the console. They wagered and did so correctly that consumers wouldn't really care.

 

The emulation route of backwards compatibility was used in some ps3 fats and some actually had the hardware, i can't remember if any EU Ps3s ever had the hardware ps2 compatibility...

I remember that upon coming back from sony for repair number of non-backwards compatible ps3 (80gb and I believe Slim) models have come back with semi functioning backwards compatability, as when they were being fixed they weren't changed back from factory/service mode.

I've read a few places and people are have figured out how to do this as the PS3 is now hacked to buggery but their method apparently bricks the Slim ones for the moment.

However apparently some games run like dogs with this as its not optimised in the slightest for the PS3's lack of certain ram types ect.

Sony's decision to discontinue hardware supported PS2 compatibility will just be about money as they were were trying to save every last pence they had as the insane production price of the PS3 and its high retail price was killing it.

Its removal of softwear emulation however will have to do with future business models, leaked documents a while back showed a probability of PSN starting downloadable ps2 games which may eventually happen but only once they've released every HD re-make they want to so that has probably been put on hold/canned.

I'd say never expect sony to restart their support of PS2 emulation in any way that you don't have to pay for... by game, infact those few models which have softwear emulation I would expect to either suddenly brick or for that feature to be removed linux style when/If ps3 games get onto PSN.

edit - A single google search will lead anyone to a plethora of sites with far more info about getting your non backwards compatible ps3s playing final fantasy 10 lol...

edit2 - Yes i just checked the EU 60/80gb ps3 had partial softwear based ps2 backwards compatability with a small bit of ED ram (i think thats the type) to help emulate the ps2 and why the newer models run some games quite badly

 

For the moment? How would they add compatibility "back in" to something that never had it?

There are three types of PS3s, essentially. One lot has full PS2 hardware, another has partial PS2 hardware, and the Slims and 40GBs etc have no PS2 hardware at all. Obviously Sony will never add BC for those latter models and no trickery or hacking (short of writing or porting a new emulator) will add that compatibility.

 

Really? My Aiwa receiver seems to be doing a pretty good job honestly. To each their own.

However they disabled it because they likely didn't want to bother with paying some guys to keep it updated and functioning with each update. Plus it wasn't directly earning them any money.

Also they like to make liars out of themselves through marketing.

 

Sony likes to have semi-true records for their console.

For example, the PS1 is the longest selling console in history. Nobody bought one for the last 4 years it was on the market, but it gets this record because Sony refused to stop selling a dead console.

For the PS2, Sony wants a sales record. If a PS3 could play PS2 games, nobody would buy a PS2. By removing PS2 support from the PS3, they can guarantee that fans of the PS2 will continue to increase PS2 sales.

It's a big scam by an evil corporation.

 

Do you honestly believe any of that? That Sony's only real goal with their backwards compatibility strategy is to be able to manipulate sales records to make the PS2 seem successful?

They removed BC because it was expensive for them to maintain.

 

So wait...let me get this straight. My UK PS3 80GB model (little big planet bundle) CAN play PS2 games in some form?

I've just done a lot of Googling and I'm none the wiser.

 

And because they likely assumed consumers that wanted to play PS2 games, or obviously those that owned some, already owned a PS2 console and the loss was not a big deal to them. Given the quality of PS1 BC on PS2, and then the quality of PS2 BC on PS3, I can't really say it's very appealing. PS1 on PS2 wasn't too bad but it certainly wasn't perfect. PS3's BC I've heard alot of issues about.

 

If you have four USB ports you're good to go with PS2 games. The compatibility rate will depend on which model you have though.

If you have two USB ports then PS2 is a no-go.

I do reckon this is the last generation of home consoles to feature backwards compatibility though.

 

Ah ok, that's a no then. Thanks. :thumbsup:

 

Early backwards compatibility with the EE chip onboard (amongst others as well) was pretty damn good honestly. Good enough to put aside your PS2 and play it upscaled unless you were into HDLoader or had a collection of DVD-Rs.

After they removed the chips and switched to solely software based emulation PS2 backwards compatibility went downhill very fast in terms of quality. Now that they don't even offer it I don't see the point in buying a PS3 as now it has less features for the same amount of cash.

Unless I mod it. Which I would to gain these features back at minimum. And ditch HDCP.

 

Only since 2002 and the brand kind of died in 2006.

 

Allegedly. All Japanese 60GB and 20GB units have full PS2 hardware inside them, as does the 60GB launch US model. The 60GB European model doesn't though, due to costs the Euro unit was revised and PS2 implementation is done under emulation. Now is gets confusing because in Europe at least when the 40GB and 80GB models were released there was supposedly no PS2 emulation software on board at all but whereas the 40GB won't play anything the 80GB will play some titles, for a while there was even a patch on the PSN store that facilitated such a thing. Whether it's still there or not I don't know but for a while it most definitely was. In the case of slims though it seems with the exception of Singstar(?) you'll never get any PS2 software running.

 

Why did my PS3 slim not play PS2 games? Because it is a PS3 not a PS2 The PSX emulaton is piss poor too half of my old games boot to the PSX logo then BSOD. The only way around it is purchases via PSN

 

PS1 emulation on the PS2 was practically 100%. The Sound Processor in the PS2 IS a PS1.

 

I agree, I think that sales of the PS2 started declining after they launched the first run of PS3s so they thought SHIT we can't have that!

Why else would the next lot of consoles be the same price as the launch models? It makes common sense, Less hardware = Less cost!