Why would a developer horde an alpha/beta?

Haha, I dunno how you even saw it since I deleted it a second after posting. I was ignorant and decided to post based off reading the title (which I must have skimmed the developer part) and only your post. I assumed it had to do with people purchasing betas and hording them, ergo, my post was pointless.

I think you and Alchy said it the best either way. :thumbsup:

 

Also the massive legal responsibilities for releasing such an item even unintentionally.

Specific devs who have Alphas/Betas they worked on outside of the office often have them under very legally unique circumstances, in my experience and those of people i know or have worked with alot of studios have possible grounds for dismissal for things as simple as taking a phone or anything capable of recording data or storing data into the work environment(without even using it). Everyone can admit this makes sense during development but even afterwards some companies keep an eye out for anything that can pin on someone.

Some of the top devs and heads take alot of stuff home and often these can be specifically tracked down to them via various means which would put them in hot water.

Inside its code could be industry secrets/dev working which aren't ever meant to see the light of day, and often games which are crazily unstable and will crash, corrupt data and in some extreme (rare)cases even mess up hardware be it on a softwear or hardwear level.

If you're talking about devs officially releasing alphas/betas...
If its an unfinished or unreleased game you're also dealing with the legal issues of an unlicensed product using content that hasn't passed Internal legal, use, console, softwear or health certification which would be a massive cost (And external certification which is also £££) , let alone dusting off and re-initiating basic testing procedure on older hardware if you're talking about old games or most probably building new ones which puts costs into obscene levels.

In terms of music in the game and any licenced content you're then dealing with probably out of date contracts and missing paperwork which could leave the company liable to all sorts.
Also often unreleased games end on bad circumstances where the workers may have been missing bonuses and such, and contracts where they've certain parts are to be completed on release which wouldn't happen, also basic stuff like credits, often the credits aren't finalised until late in development and people hired after are cut off but more importantly if you've not even wrote the credits in this early build the work of 10s-100s of people will go uncredited which again... legal issues.

Capcom have spoken about many times the long and costly problem with ps1 classics which were actually released is dealing with the huge amount of legal paperwork in various regions to do with any connected media to their game. Legal rights, old publishers, everything. it isnt just uploading an ISO to psn.

If you're talking about alphas/betas you've probably got those very same problems mixed with all those I listed above, and calls with very angry publishers about releasing a game feel they wasted alot of money on, and updating contracts from ages ago with many people.

 

Christ, I give up. I've given example after example of why linear media like early audio and film can be re-released with little fuss and why early copies of interactive media like games can't.

Money. Money in cleaning up ancient code to a playable level. Like I already said.

You say that like it's either/or. Chances are high that it's neither.

The point isn't finding these things - it's the cost associated with cleaning them up for release.

If you have an allergy to my posts, Cypher covers this accurately above.

They have to protect their copyright or they risk losing it. This also relates to the ex-Nintendo employee who wanted to sell Ura Zelda - Nintendo can't be seen to be permitting their employees (or even ex-employees) to leak insider material. That questions their competence and control over their copyright which has potential legal ramifications.

 

I wouldn't go as far as to say that I've got an "allergy" to your posts. In fact, it's quite refreshing to read in-depth an opinion that's obviously far removed from my own, and clearly you feel just as strongly about the subject matter or you wouldn't provide such lengthy responses yourself. Regardless of your views, hopefully this discussion will allow and encourage others to contribute their thoughts in the future...

One thing I just can't understand (despite being a member of this board for a long time now) is why so many people are vocally terrified of Nintendo and Capcom in particular when it comes to the distribution of prototype/unreleased software code, yet don't seem to care much if it is the property of Sega they're planning to make available. These are the three companies whose names keep appearing more often than any others, though to my knowledge only Nintendo has taken what I'd consider great legal steps to prevent any leaks in the past...

Of course, there was the whole issue surrounding PlayStation Museum's acquisition of the Biohazard 2 prototype a while back, even though its version was not the most complete build known to be in hands outside those of Capcom - according to fans who've spent years researching this game, and some who may even have access to later copies. Still, wasn't there a very serious risk at one point of someone from Capcom's US forum being notified of this specific transaction?

As I said before, I don't see what the great deal is... or has Shinji Mikami foiled previous attempts in the past, with those daring to defy Capcom's wishes locked away in the same vault he keeps the prototype discs of this game? Similarly, if by some chance I was able to find a way of leaking the Saturn version of Shenmue what chance is there of me being chased half-way around Asia by Yu Suzuki, Ryo and Lan-Di style? Was the potential sale of Ura Zelda worth hunting down former employees for and making Guantanamo-grade threats? Surely there can be some kind of middleground?

The best example I can think of is Chris Senn, a former designer on the Sonic Xtreme project and now frequent contributor of original source materials purely for the benefit of the small fan community that's unlikely to be satisfied by Sega's official efforts in a hurry. When financial resources and a relative lack of buyers prevents a release through conventional channels, perhaps more companies could adopt Senn's approach to ensure those who are interested have at least something worthwhile rather than nothing at all. One day they'll realise such preservation efforts aren't the work of underground enemies, but more dedicated efforts by people who simply cared when the majority had long since forgotten!

 

I don't think anyone here much cares which company any leaks come from. Proto/unreleased games for Sega platforms are common, but I'd say that says more about Sega's lax attitude than anything else. A cursory glance at the sales section of this board shows that preview games from all systems are regularly traded.

Chris Senn isn't a company.

 

The basic NDA stuff is really scary, ontop of that you can pretty much get blacklisted from the industry for doing as little as writing a gamefaqs guide for something you worked on lol. While everyone is happy that Chris Senn has been so outspoken and due to the debaucle that was Sonic X-treme's birth and death his is a very special case, but I have to wonder if anyone in the industry would touch him with a barge pole. Singular people doing stuff like this, even speaking let alone bringing builds or rebuilds about things aren't only taking their jobs into their own hands, but their entire careers and sometimes their current assets/lifestyles.

For specifics about can someone get in trouble who buys said alpha ect, i'd say any large company could find several ways to crucify someone if they were so inclined (Nintendo) as whats essentially being handled is stolen goods, while some are more forgiving. The one who'd get the dogs put after him would be the leaker.

Its financial suicide on for most companies to even think about doing things like this, ontop of that games like Saturn shenmue specifically are the babies of their creators that're often kept under lock and key, all for games which would have the epitome of niche market. Many of the most iconic designers are very protective over their creations and rightly so, from Yuji Naka "Do not touch my Nights Engine" to Itagaki publicly slating members of what was his own company far daring to change Ninja Gaiden. When it comes to their greatest talents or their biggest IPs a company won't take risks(A clever one anyway *cough* TECMO). Haha not many artists will happily show you their early sketchings or unfinished work.

Resident Evil 1.5 is probably the most likely game to ever receive anything like an official re-release(and that won't happen)(on some form of resident evil compilation) or at least small demo but it'd be a financial and legal quagmire. Due to the way Capcom as a company work they don't answer to anyone but themselves... but as such they're very careful.

 

I don't know why, but I too had a feeling that the Biohazard 2 prototype was one of the more likely cancelled games to be released in the future... even though the chance of this happening is still very slim. Considering its long and complicated production, I'm certain a team of lawyers must have been working overtime behind the scenes to ensure that Duke Nukem Forever could be finished - never mind the sheer number of development staff who've probably contributed to its creation over the years!

By contrast, I have a feeling if "Resident Evil 1.5" (and I suspect that may stick as an official title, should a release ever be seriously contemplated) was to be completed it would probably require at least the signatures of Shinji Mikami and Hideki Kamiya. Now, the problem is that the former is determined not to allow this version to ever see the light of day because of the obvious contradictions to the rest of the series and supposed inferiority issues - even though it would be great if Capcom would allow its fans to be the judge of that particular aspect. Meanwhile, the latter isn't even with Capcom anymore, though in recent times he has similarly dismissed 1.5 as rubbish.

In spite of all this corporate negativity, there's still a huge amount of focus being given to this non-game in fan circles, with the last known build guaranteed to satisfy the majority should it surface one way or the other. From what I can tell, 1.5 is right up there as one of the most highly-sought-after and so-called holy grails in videogaming, yet again its release would still only register on the radar of a small number of players.

To be honest, I wouldn't expect anything less, just as many people here can't understand my enthusiasm for the Saturn prototype version of Shenmue or Sonic Xtreme - a project that only exists in small, barely playable incoherent pieces. While a game such as 1.5 or the many titles known to have been completed and then cancelled at the last minute (I'll not mention a certain Saturn-bound fighting sequel by AM2 in fear or group-induced sterility for once!) would be more realistic to expect, in the extreme case of Xtreme *groan* we have a former team member helping assist with fan efforts to make something worthwhile based on the same overall concept, only without the internal politics, budget limitations and tight deadlines that ultimately doomed Sega's own efforts.

Bringing another trademark epic rant full-circle, that last point reminds me of Chris Senn, who from what I can tell is still very much active within the professional games development world. By releasing whatever he can in a carefully-thought-out way without ever deliberately treading on former colleagues' toes, he's managed to avoid serious repercussions while keeping his new disciples happy. Well, there have been a few close shaves in the past, but in general his approach works and I can only wish that by rule of thumb more Japanese people followed in his path.

Then again, there's considerably more financial reward to be gained from completing something like Shenmue as opposed to a Sonic game that probably wouldn't have made that great an impact - even though it was being hailed as the greatest thing ever, despite being on a console that realistically needed more than one good title to remotely save it from the all-conquering PlayStation. From what we've all seen, would Sonic Xtreme have really made a great difference? Maybe when Yuji Naka threw his now-infamous tantrum it was because he saw what was coming from a mile off when Sega of America's own overhyped division couldn't?

Either way, I'm digressing badly. What I meant to conclude with originally was a question about Japanese software development figureheads, so here it is; does anyone else believe that we'll ever get a Chris Senn level of fan service from someone like Yu Suzuki or Hideki Kamiya? Well, at least Kamiya has put out a few Bayonetta concept sketches in more recent times, but that's not quite the kind of "fan service" I had in mind!