Wishes and support to our friends in Denmark

Phinn: I can´t even say anything (not even political correct), about certain people, without I have to look over my shoulder, to see if I can say it in a secure enviroment, so well the freedom of speech in Denmark is threatened, the place where I used to study, I was threatened out, because I said political correct stuff, and the truth about things. And I almost had a fatwa over my head.

So I must say, that it is time to unite, and fight the opression of the free speech.

Since I want to say prick, and spade without people thinking I am a racist, since I am NOT a racist at all.

and it is this kind of a spade I am talking about.

http://www.edirectory.co.uk/pf/images/products/955/images/spade.jpg


I really don´t know if you know how much shit Denmark is in over their head, over 12 simple pictures, heck in the ancient Christian times a picture of JC was forbidden, but now a days it isn´t.

I even have a joke picture book , made an Ekstra Bladet drawing artist, and if I should respect all the sharia laws, almost every picture would be illegal.

So no, I am tired of being always almost punched in the head, and called a racist.
By Swedes (no offence to you anyway), because of Pia Kjærsgaard.
Or seeing a sticker in Helsingborg, where there stood "Danish bacon, a taste racism".

I am NOT a racistpig.

Or for that matter experience being called a queer, because of my heavy metal headbanging hair, by foreign people in Denmark.

It isn´t fun anymore, that is why we Danes now fight, diplomatic, and the whole western hemosphere is supporting us.

I feel like the incas, when the Spanish came. Sorry for putting in such a perspective, but that is how I feel .

But of course I hate racial slurs, like White Pig, or worse. Just like I hate racial slurs about foreign people. But I admit I have used them in anger. Since when you are too angry your morale standards goes heywire.

But still, it is insane reading so much shit, I have read the last decade or so.

 

If you can justify others killing people, because of a cartoon...I wount even finsh that sentence

 

Sometimes there is no other choice than war. Think about all of the people that will be surpressed and murdered due to the religious fanaticism in the Islamic world. It is beginning to creep its way into many of the European nations to the point where it will be too late to stop it: civil liberties will be lost, the free and liberal culture of Europe will be destroyed, and Europeans will be supressed or even killed.

To put it bluntly, this has happened before to Europe. When Christianity found its way into Europe for the first time, it was forced onto them via violence. It took hundreds of years of the Dark Ages before Europe finally crawled out from under the yoke of religious supression.

Sometimes war is the best choice. Be strong Europe. Your culture, your society, and your people have the intelligence and strength to conquer them before they conquer you. It is do or die. Either they will conquer Europe and rebuild it in their image, or Europe will conquer them and rebuild their nations in Europe's image. Honestly, answer me this, what is better in the end:

1. Europe rebuilt in the image of the Middle East.
2. The Middle East rebuilt in the image of Europe.

So stop stalling, and fight back! You are the good guys. You have been too nice for too long. Fight back! Don't let them destroy your free and liberal culture. You will not be in the wrong, as they have already begun to attack you first.

 

Your either proposing colonialism or a holy war. Both have been tried and neither would work because nobody is willing to do what it would take to finish either.

 

Of course not, but that is an extreme. Society cannot exist peacefully without rules and I don't agree that limiting freedom of speech in terms of extremism or promoting xenophobia is a slippery slope to totalitarism. If anything, preventing those voices from being heard can lower the chance that these voices might become louder in the future. It could actually promote a freer society in terms of open mindedness and tolerance for other races and religions.

What I am proposing is that the media should set out their own guidelines and governing body, in a similar way to how the British media already conduct themselves. It works. My example of this forum stands. I may choose to say whatever I like here, but we all know that the forum has rules forbidding certain topics or reactions and the admins or mods would close and/or delete a topic that broke those rules. Do those rules negatively affect the atmosphere or general freedom of the forums? No, they simply prevent unsavoury or extreme voices from gaining a platform and I think the same kind of rules would apply equally as well to the media in general.

Allow me give another example. Without the propoganda and cartoons against the Jews in the 1930's, would the Nazi group ever have come into power? I'm not suggesting the cartoons of Mohamed are in the same league or even serve the same purpose, but who is to say they don't have a similar effect ultimately? By demonising religious and ethnic groups we run a very real chance of breeding hatred, and that is the really terrible thing. It only takes someone to latch onto a fear in society and connect it to a group of people and suddenly they become public enemy number one.

From small acorns, great oaks do grow.

 

Stop making excuse for them. The extreme muslim religion doesn't make the laws of the world. Your trying to tell me that nazis where created by cartoonsn wtf?

The jews where hated because of racism and the teachings of their leaders by false beliefs and by ignorance and hate. Their cartoons where insignifigant and based on what the already felt.

They hate the fact that mohammed has a bomb on his head so they go blow up random cars and burn and blow up buildings creating the very image they say is false. IN the middleeast there are constantly cartoons making fun of the west and jews. Hmm so now the world can't be free because a bunch of extremists don't want us too..yearight!!! If they dont' like the image of muhammed with a bomb on his head maybe they denounce the suicide bombings and stop threating the world with beheadings and bombings and kidnappings etc....Noboby is demonising there religion but themselves.

 

Hmmm you are only talking about one of the 12 pictures, that is strange, since there are 11 others to chose from.

And this is not an offence to any Swedes with the sticker comment, just a fact that I have seen with my two own eyes in Helsingborg, and this coming comment shall not be misunderstood either.

My father and I has just been talking about this thing about respect and support to the Danes, but well the lovely Swedes we have here on the forum ,where Babu said with an honest respect and support to the Danes, and I do believe him. But well the grand industry in Sweden, doesn´t respect us Danes, since they are now desoldering Danish components in electronics, and putting "nonDanish" components in instead.

That is what I call double morale in Danish, the English counterpart is Double Standard/Standards.


But well it is nothing new(I am going back in time to make a perspective again), under WW2 the Swedes said, they were neutral and all. I am by the way not talking about the individual Swedes, since they were really neutral. But the Swedes (the politicians) let The German troops go into Norway, and bang bang, to this day, the Norwegians "hate" the Swedes, but I can go even further back with the history, but I won´t go offtopic, or for that matter offend the dear lovely Swedes we have on this forum. Since I don´t like to be unpopular.

I just want to say this, the individual civil Swedes can really give their true respect, and support to the Danes, but well double standards are everywhere, even in Denmark where Mærsk MCkinney Møller has said "shame on you Denmark", so he could get some extra money out of this crisis, just to piss on my own country under WW2 A.P. Møller (the father of M M Møller) made money by selling weapons to the German and The Allied side, through the buisness called Riffelsyndikatet (The Rifle Syndicate).

So having double standards, is a normal human thing, even I have them.

But in a month when it is all settled down, we will be at their mercy again in Denmark. And I will be silent in these kind of matters. Since Anders Fogh Rasmussen(our prime minister) said yesterday that USA was in our back, and suporting us, and then The Arab world said "well maybe we should stop this thing". Since they are VERY afraid of USA.

To all Scandinavians we have here on this forum, I am not going to offend you guys.
And neither am I going to offend anyone else. I am just pointing true facts out.

 

This is part of my point though - only a very small minority of Muslims are fanatics and the Islamic religion doesn't promote terrorism. It's just certain states in the middle east and groups that use religion as a tool to mask their anarchy and hatred for the west.

The Nazi party wasn't created by cartoons, but the hatred for Jews in Germany was furthered by propoganda created by the Nazi party, including racist cartoons and pictures. Trivialising racism with cartoons is one attempt to soften slurs on other races and ethnic groups - it's only a cartoon, it doesn't mean anything, right? Not true. It does have an effect and it probably subconsciously changes our general view of the people portrayed. it serves a purpose.

I'll ask the forum what was/is being shown on CNN? A bunch of burning buildings right? Islam's reaction to a few innocent cartoons? Do they attempt to explain the regimes of these people or what would motivate them to react in such a violent and extreme way? All this whole incident does is breed hatred on both sides.

Globally, Muslims DO denounce suicide bombings and terrorism and the general wish is for peace. Extremist groups do not wish for peace however. They shouldn't have an impact on the rest of the world, but terrorism makes that impact nonetheless. Why provoke more anger in these places when it could easily be avoided by sensible debate? Terrorism isn't a joke, and it shouldn't be made a joke by anyone that is tasked with giving people information and reporting on world events and society. A lot of people source their news from newspapers and believe what they read.

 

Taucias: You are saying, that the cartoons in the Danish newspaper is promoting racism among Danes ?

Well sorry for saying this, I don´t seriously, if you haven´t studied Danish history. You really have a clue about what you are saying about Danes, yes there are neonazis in Denmark. But not all danes are neonazis. Yes we do have racists among Danes, but remember there are three ways of racism, there are the old version that was the nazis, racial teachings, but also racism means fears of the foreign, culture etc. but also a hatred, and the individual danes isn´t racist, and he doesn´t hate everybody, I can say personally, that if you can behave good. You won´t even be noticed, if you have an accent in your Danish language.

So about the newspaper, well they made a statement through the pictures. But well I think I have said before many many times, the Danes are very laid back people, and takes things easy, you can even say fuck in TV without being beeped out. You can do so many things. So Denmark is a lovely country , and I invite anyone to Denmark, who knows how to behave, and I will of course buy you a beer if you want one.

 

This is what I don't get, and if this has been brought up, Im sorry I missed it...

I'm roman catholic, the pope, pictures of christ, and pretty much the whole religion is spat on in the media, from latenight shows, to sitcoms.
Last I checked outside, I dont see people running down the road with a cross in there hand, participating in acts of violence.
You can take a civil stand on issues which bother you and you dont like. But then again I have the feeling, if you don't like it, turn it off, dont read it, get your point across with out looking barbaric and foolish.
Ive seen the cartoon, and it is what it is, a cartoon. To have people to participat in the acts in which has been done is far worse.

New York artist Andres Serrano, whose notorious photograph called "Piss Christ" (a photo of a crucifix submerged in Serrano's urine)
Imagine in this art-provocation mode, he produced another photo called "Piss Talmud" which had a couple pages of the Talmud submerged in his artistically photographed urine.

Serrano would never have a show in New York again.

See the irony in this....

 

Ah, I wasn't trying to imply Danes are neo-nazis or that there is a major racist problem in Denmark. I am sure Denmark is a wonderful country and from the Danes I have met in my travels I know they are an extremely friendly and inviting bunch

My point was that racial cartoons don't have a place in a national newspaper for the very reason that they are racist and thus depict people in a disrespectful negative way. They can only provoke a negative response, as we are seeing right now.

 

Holy War has nothing to do with it. Like I have said, Europe has been attacked by religion before: Christianity threw Europe into the Dark Ages... and it took hundreds of years before it was able to pull itself out of that degenerate culture. I am sorry if this upsets Christians, but it is the truth. History is trying to repeat itself here, but this time it is not Christianity... instead, it is Islam.

Europeans were weak, poor, and uneducated when Christianity came. Hence Europe lost and was thrown into the Dark Ages. But now Europe has the strength, wealth, and intellect to fight back and stop another Dark Age. Stop being so nice that you let them walk all over you! Wake up! Fight back! Nobody else can do it for you. This has nothing to do with colonialism. Colonialism is about greed. This war will be about defending oneself from another Dark Age.

If Europe is thrown into another Dark Age of oppresive religious rule, it will not be because they couldn't defend themselves. It will be because they chose not to defend themselves. Unlike America, which has been an aggressor in this mess, Europe has been the nice guy, the good guy, that lets bad people walk all over them. Even the most forgiving people eventually have to say that enough is enough. Stand up for yourself!

 

Surely the fall of the Roman Empire caused the Dark Ages? Pagan Europe was conquered by pagan Romans. Europe was primitive before and primitive for a long time after the Romans came. Christianity had little to do with it. If anything, the lack of Christianity was why the period became known as the 'Dark Ages'. The Renaissance happened to a Christian Europe and it was a Christian Europe that dominated the world for many centuries.

 

Keep making excuses for their actions. They will love the support.Many of there most visual leaders openly preach hate, murder, kidnappings, beheadings and disrespect for everyone in the world we're so used to it it seems common place. Seems to me like their freedom of expression applies to them alone. Here is a picture of just one of the hundreds of protests that are happening. It's easy to downplay it by saying its a smal percentage but that becomes pointless when you consider that means thosands of people filled with these ideas and hate.

 

A video was released today that shows the cartoonists of the controversial cartoon threatened with their lives. The faces of the editors of the paper in which the cartoons were first shown are covered by sniper targets, also the video orders Muslims to continue boycotting Danish products. The video originates from a forum that is often used by known terror groups.

Typical Cartoons found everyday throughout the middle east.



























- Danish products are boycotted in all of Middle East
- Some highly representative Middle Eastern organizations are threatening to kill Danes. And Swedes too for some reason even though we haven't done jack shit to this issue really.
- Bomb threats all over Danish stuff
- Muslim countries are calling home their ambassadors



A World Without Zion



Apparently a major portion of the speech last fall given by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was that to "wipe israel off the map", they must first wipe america off the map. First america, then israel as the picture suggests.

 

This really is the crux of the argument. There's a massive difference between having free speech and using it. And having the ability to exercise freedom of speech does not exclude your from its consequences.

Example: when I see a fat guy in the street, it's well within my rights of free speech to take the piss out of him. Obviously I don't, because such antagonism serves no purpose.

It's exactly the same with this case of the picture. It's not offensive to me, but it's clearly offensive to a lot of people. Out of respect for them, as a newspaper editor I wouldn't print it. It's common courtesy.

The fact they're hipocrits doesn't change anything, either. So they denounce cartoons with Mohammed in them on one hand and publish anti-semitic cartoons on the other - that makes them jackasses. Responding by deliberately publishing cartoons that offend them just makes you a jackass too.

Are you honestly suggesting that any real number of people in Europe are going to suddenly become muslims? After all this sort of behaviour? Or that any attempt to stamp muslim culture over our consumerist culture would have an effect? Get real...

 

Just to make matters worse, they still want an apology from the politicians, and now I am shouting NO FUCKING WAY !

And Jyllands Posten will now make in collaberation with an Irany newspaper, some "funny" pictures of JC, and of the hollocaust.


Taucias: are you a muslim ? or a sympathiser ? or for that matter a female person in love with a muslim ?

Since every time I try to explain the freedom of speech to you, it is like fighting in brown soap, since I don´t where I have you.

Sorry for going into the extreme, but I don´t think you know how much the Danish population is threatened...

Heck, it is not even fun listening to people shouting "death to Denmark !" or for that matter "death to Norway !" or for that matter "death to Sweden !", or for that matter seeing your flag being burned and stomped on , and buildings too. And people making hate propaganda, and telling BIG lies.

I don´t know how to say it, but how would you like if people burned your flag off, and stomped on it, and maybe even pissed on it. Then I think you also would begin to feel enough is enough.

That is how I feel, and many other Danes.

Enough is enough, the 12 pictures was just the drop in the glass that made it spill over.

I just feel this case has become uglier, by the days .

And other pictures that was made , like the pig mohammed was from some pig oink contest in France, and well again you can see by the comment by imam Ahmed Akkari that BBC used the picture, since they said in a lie, that is was used by Jyllands Posten, and BBC gave us an apology today. And even some other pictures that Weekend avisen showed, made in a satiric NOT of mohammed, but a joke on the whole
case was seen in the BBC program, and they weren´t at all of Mohammed, but something else.

Ahmed Akkari, has this opinion about muslim women without their head covered, that is okay to kick them if they don´t have it on.

I rest my case untill further notice.

People, I don´t want this vacuum in Denmark not to end for a while, since I feel more free than I have ever had in a while, since as one told me, he hasn´t felt so free like the 50´s since there wasn´t that big thing at all. And the person who told me about the 50´s said he felt it was like that right now in Denmark because of this case, some people behaves better right now.

But sadly it will end soon..

And I would have never imagined what I have experienced in this case .. since the 30. of September where the 12 pictures were shown in Jyllands Posten.

This case is ugly, period.

 

Being a white Christian British citizen with a white Orthodox Christian American girlfriend (quite a mouthful, and I'm talking about the sentence here), I indeed have a good idea where you are coming from and how you might feel threatened. It is understandable for you to feel angry and frightened.

Let me be quite clear, because it is obvious that some people are reading my opinion and equating it to sympathy for all that has happened. I do not agree with terrorism or extremism in any shape or form. There is no place for it in the civilized world. I am against any kind of violence. I am also against racism of any kind, against any race. London was bombed not so long ago and the tube stations hit were ones I frequently travel on.

As I have stated, I think it was irresponsible for the Danish newspapers to display such cartoons, regardless of what other cartoons may be being shown in the middle east. What good did it do? None whatsoever. All it has done is make you guys a target and offended a load of people.

They've been doing it to the USA and the UK for years mate, welcome to the club. We blame our governments, but you have a newspaper to thank for it. Pretty stupid, isn't it? It's a fucked up world we live in, and it is a dangerous future we face.

 

Spot on. If we want to maintain the moral high ground, then just because Muslim newspapers publish degoratory cartoons of Jews and Christians, doesn't mean we should. Yes, they are hyprocrites, but that's why we're right and they're wrong. As soon as you emulate their actions, then it's just a meaningless slagging match.

 

Taucias: thanks for the explanation, myself I believe in God, and I am a humanist, and that is about all in that matter, and yes I am white. But to me colours don´t matter, it is the behavior in the individiual that matters

So if you are caucasian and behaves like a dork, and do stupid stuff, I would probably not like you. But if you behave good, I can respect you, even if you were black, so colours isn´t a factor to me.

And same thing with me, if I had a bad behavior, I wouldn´t be respected.

And I try really hard to behave good, instead of bad.

Peace.