Yep, another unreleased SEGA system

The final Saturn design was produced entirely by SOJ, who (obviously) favoured their own - and inferior - specification to the cartridge-based NVIDIA joint venture with SOA. Ironically, there is some truth in the idea that it was SOA behind the 32X, as their hardware teams developed the system following an idea submitted by Hayao Nakayama. He probably knew that it would be a surefire way of getting SOA off his back, as they were busy desperately supporting this upgrade, having to delay their own plans for a proper 32-bit console. Meanwhile, the Japanese staff quickly revised their original Saturn concept and then forced this down the American and European staff's throats, regardless of whether they had enough time to actually get any decent software on shelves in time for its rush-launch, intended as a way of gaining an early lead over the imminent and much more powerful PlayStation. In the ultimate twist of fate, many of the components from SOA's console project eventually found their way into something known as Project Reality, which then became the "Ultra 64" and finally... well, the rest is history!

NOTE: Any doubts regarding the Saturn's capabilities had it used the NVIDIA technology should not stem from how badly many N64 titles looked texture-wise. In fact, if SOA had adopted CD-ROM storage then the Saturn in its original form would have been more than capable of beating Nintendo's system when it came to graphical quality. According to some ex-employees, working prototype systems existed along with early tech demos of Daytona USA and the CS team Saturn launch titles (Clockwork Knight, Panzer Dragoon and Victory Goal).

 

I'm going a bit off topic here but do any of you think that the Saturn was originally going to run both CD and Cartridge software? You have to admit that the cartridge port on the Saturn is far too big for just memory cards plus Datel run code from their Action Replay through the cartridge port so it's possible as far as I can tell that you can run games through it. Maybe Sega just threw it in to the Saturn design since it was cheaper just to use that (probably based on the 32X) than to make a new design.

Yakumo

 

So the Mega Drive/Genesis 2 was really coming supporting more colors?
I remember reading about this in a magazine back in that days, but I thought it was just bullshit. Do someone has more info about it?

 

Apart from the obvious Backup Memory use (and later those ROM/RAM and 4-in-1 cartridges), it's been rumoured that Sega wanted the Saturn to have backwards compatibility with both the MegaDrive and 32X - probably as a result of guilt after having to abandon the latter system far too early. Like those upgrade rumours, nothing official has ever come of this, though we do know that SOA had the "Eclipse" project that was developed separately from AM2's long-awaited conversion of Virtua Fighter 3. Any support for the 32X probably had to be reconsidered when the Saturn was redesigned at the very last minute, although it's odd to see why Sega even bothered with the battery save feature if they also had plans for a backup cartridge as well. Still, considering that both methods have reliability issues it's definitely for the best that they gave us continuing Saturn users a choice...

Does anyone think that Video CD or Photo CD compatibility may have been possible using some type of cartridge? I know that MPEG support was finally provided through a port in the battery space at the back of the system, but surely there was a better way of viewing images without having to swap your pictures with the Operating System disc? Homebrew developers have a lot to learn about the Saturn (breaking its disc protection is just the beginning!), and perhaps one day someone might even be able to make a proper multi-purpose cartridge that allows for direct loading and saving without all the problems currently associated with unofficial devices? Despite being the importer's best friend, it would be great if someone found a way to modify an Action Replay cart so you didn't have to copy any wanted files to the Saturn's internal memory before playing.

 

Lack of spelling correctly and puntucation left me scanning your post for a few minutes as well (And its shorter!).

 

nope. Megadrive and Genesis model 2 were simply smaller re-designs of the original consoles. same spec.


the MegaCD and SegaCD however, were rumored to boost the number of colors and sprites that Megadrive-Genesis could handle, since the CD-ROM was in reality, an upgrade. but it turned out that the CD-ROM did not boost colors or sprites - even though the CD-ROM did add more processing power (the 2nd MC68000 CPU) as well as scaling & rotation capabilities.


as for Saturn playing MegaCD-SegaCD discs, Megadrive-Genesis cartridges and 32X cartridges, yes, Sega concidered this - it was rumored in magazines. but Sega obviously decided against it (or was unable to make it work) in the end.

 

It's almost impossible that Saturn could have used Nvidia technology, and it is also impossible that the Nvidia-based console was designed in parallal to the Saturn. The Nvidia-based console was under development in 1995, well after the Saturn had been completed ( summer-fall 1994) and released in Japan (Nov 1994). Nvidia came into existance in 1993 and was working on PC technology, not with Sega at that time. Nvidia launched their NV1 chip used in the Diamond Edge 3D cards in 1995, and it was around that time that Nvidia was working with Sega on NV2 - the Nvidia-based console was going to be a replacement for Saturn, not a parallal project.

 

Yes, I have thought about this, too. There's this persistent rumour about some pirate original Mahjongg game that ran from cartridge, but nothing has turned up. I heard Sega actually dissuaded developers from running code of a cartridge (note: this also means placing code on the 1M/4M RAM cartridge) because of stability issues.

On an even more unrelated note, does anybody have a memory map of the ST-V? I know it's out there, it would be interesting to find out what the Saturn's and ST-V's cart slot have in common.

 

Nah, only in the VERY early stages, but around summer 94 they made the decision to make it CD only. The cartridge rumor was created by SOA to keep the gamers cool about an inminent battle between 32X and Saturn, like the "Saturn=32XCD" rumor.

And antipasta, the saturn HAD 3D capabilities from the beggining, but they were equal to a Model1. SEGA at the time was convinced that 3D wont make its way to the market until another generation (and they were right, becos 3D at the time was a bunch of pixel crap, but sony did a lot of hype about the 3D) so they equip the saturn with 2D in mind, and 3D like a 2nd option.

Then the PSX techdemos are shown, and SEGA exects literally crap their pants. So they add MORE capabilities at the last minute, like texture mapping, etc....

Lets say they did a last time hardware reinforcement, without taking in mind the consecuences that such technical changes would have in the console.

 

"the 32X was basicly what Saturn would have been without chip upgrades and without a CD-ROM. "
Yeah, the 32x doesn't have any hardware drawing capability (only flat horizontal line drawing).
The saturn has one BG VDP (2D planes) and one 3D/2D VDP hooked on a framebuffer (for sprites and polys).
In fact, the 32x draws all by software and hardly beat the genesis-VDP pixel processing power...

"the MegaCD and SegaCD however, were rumored to boost the number of colors and sprites that Megadrive-Genesis could handle"
The segacd can't display anything.
It just can process graphical operations on 16colors images (scalling, rotation), then the genesis loads the scalled pics in its VRAM (making nearly 90% of cpu waste time on genesis side)...
So, no way to display more colors with segacd.

I saw an interview in a magazine (with the guy who "created" virtua racing) and he said that he personnaly forced sega to keep the cartridge port cause he wasn't sure that a CD system (cause of RAM space) could handle games like virtua racing.
So, since it was a early interview (1993?), maybe the saturn was just like the 32x (256kb of ram or a few more) with VDP1 and 2 in its early form...
Any idea?

 

I always wonder what kind of things could be done in the 32X through software. I know that VF push the hardware to the limit, but with a machine that ladted less than a year one cant tell that the programmers really went to the limit.

I say it again: the 32X launch should`ve been before summer-94

 

in the earliest form, Sega's 32-bit home console, GigaDrive, had a 68030 CPU, or maybe two of them. It is also possible, likely even, that it also had the NEC V60 RISC CPU in it - the System32 board had that CPU, and since GigaDrive was based on System32, its likely the NEC V60 or a variant of it was used.

then once Saturn and 32X begain to solidify, the switch to Hitachi SH-2 CPU happened. first with a single SH-2, then twin SH-2s.

I am not 100% clear on the precise development from GigaDrive to Saturn and Mars/32X. how it happened and the exact timeframe. only the general timeframe (1990-1991 - GigaDrive ====> 1993-1994 Saturn, 32X).

 

Where did you find all that stuff about the Gigadrive?

Im just curious about it