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I'll have no knocking the lambos! They're fantastic cars, even if the pre-VW/audi ones are better.

 

Everywhere you go it's the same.
Lambos, McLarens, Ferraris.... who gives a damn for CO2 ?

This is the future guys, bought at my local dealer and standing in my garage:

http://mobile.de/SIDzJ4Mvywsi33zLHTw4PNWtg-t-vaNexlCsAsCsK%F3P%F3R~BmSB11Iindex_cgiJ1178525068A1Iindex_cgiD1100CCarY-t-vctpLtt~BmPA1A1B20C246%81H-t-vMiMkQuSeUnVb_X_Y_x_yrd~BSRA6B27E24100BGNCPKWA0HinPublicA2A0A0A0D2003/cgi-bin/da.pl?bereich=pkw&sr_qual=GN&top=15&id=11111111251147252&


The car before was a Honda Insight. I had it for 6 years and was absolutely fun to drive. Thinking it also was a 1st generation hybrid, I never had any problems with it. The only time I used the warranty was when I had the seat covers renewed. At 139.000kms I replaced the 1st front pads and discs.
The exhaust and clutch was still the first.
Oh yes it had a clutch ! The Honda Insight was the first and only hybrid with a manual transmission !!!

I also had an Opel Omega/Cadillac Catera/holden Commodore thingy. Never again will I buy something from GM.
Because: "Who killed the Electric car ?"


:nod:

 

In my humble opinion, a Hybrid is not worth it, particularly not in europe. Theres one reason for this: Diesel. Its perfectly prevalent in europe, and will give nearly as good mpg without a big premium on the price of the car.

My other problem with Hybrids is that they are all quite big, and they don't solve one of the biggest problems - single occupancy or 2 people in a car designed to carry 4-5. Apart from the insight all hybrids have been big cars, why do we not see say a hybrid VW polo, with the diesel engine it already has (combined cycle 62.8mpg or 4.5l/100km) with an electric engine? Its a small car, therefore low weight, so efficiency is increased already, it has a diesel which gets great mileage, and its designed for 1/2 people travelling in it with occasional rear seat passengers.

Don't get me started on hybrid 4x4s/SUVs

 

Another question:
Why doesn't VW give 8-year warranties on their ever-so-good TDIs ?
I mean, Diesel engines in vehicles have been around since 1923, so they should be trouble free...

Honda and Toyota have an 8-year warranty on their Hybrid-systems.


Why VW doesn't make Dieselhybrids ? Simple:
They were in the past 10 years, like all the other German manufacturers, too busy buying up other manufacturers and spending ridiculous ammounts of money for silly projects (VW:Bugatti, DC:Maybach, VW and BMW:Rolls-Royce).
They don't have the resources and cash because it has all been spent big-time.
Remember BMW raping Rover ?
They only wanted Rover to get a front-wheel-drive platform cheaply without spending millions. The snag was, that all the platforms (200,400,600,800-Series) save the original Mini, were Honda-based shells and all the blue-prints were in Japan. So they took the best (4-Wheel-Drive technology for their X5) and left Rover to die.
Look what Mercedes is doing with Chrysler at the moment. It is the same. Buy the opponent and kill it off....

The way Honda and Toyota do their business is completely different. The money is being invested in so many different ways, the German manufacturers, can only dream about (FCX, EV-plus, Insight, Asimo, Prius...)

Only over my dead body will I pay the (corrupt) Germans to have one of their cars.

;-)

 

That doesn't address the issue that a hybrid is not particularly efficient. I could pick a japanese manufacturer and they would have an equally good diesel: Toyota Aygo, 1.4 diesel. 68mpg, 4l/100km. Hell thats better than the VW, and is a japanese manufacturer to boot. The base model of that is £8500, whereas the prius is £17777 and claims exactly the same mpg! You can buy 2 aygos for the price of one prius, and get exactly the same mpg out of them. So why don't toyota make a diesel hybrid, which could pull off perhaps 80mpg? I've no idea, but it seems mad to me.

 

You wanna teach Brazil about the future? C'mon...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicle#Flexible-fuel_vehicles_in_Brazil

We have cars running with ethanol for more than 30 years, we have cars running on Natural Gas for about 15 years, we are developing tons of types of Bio-Diesel , with 2 types already avaiable on the market.

We even have cars called "Tetra-fuel". You can use Pure Gasoline, Gasoline, Ethanol and Natural Gas on it. The so called "Flex-Fuel" cars, that run on ethanol and gasoline are more than 80% of our market.

My car runs on ethanol. It was running on gasoline, but i converted it as soon as i got it. Not only it gives more power and torque, but it's cheaper to fill the fueltank.

My father has a 2004 Ford Focus Sedan, and he installed a Natural Gas kit on it. He uses it 99% of the time.

Toyota Prius? I suggest you to watch Top Gear and see their test.

Electric Cars? Ok, they are clean, but when you connect the plug to recharge it, the power comes from where? A power station!

Power Stations like Nuclear, Coal, Oil,... There's the damn pollution. Hydrogen cars are interesting but the technology is too expensive. They have to develop it more.

 

Toyota Aygo ?
You must be joking.
I want a car, not a skate-board.
:lol:

No, no just because "Top-Gear" says something I don't jump. They're just a couple of lazy farts either sitting on their couch or spending viewers money on silly things. In the nineties the programme was a fun motoring-programme where they tested cars now it's just a parody of itself.

A Toyota Aygo doesn't have: keyless-go, blue-tooth, sat-nav, climate control, a decent boot, plenty of room, effortless go, JBL soundsystem.

The Prius does have all of this and the air-conditioning stays on even when the engine isn't running, whilst cruising in EV-mode or at a red light.

And talking about electric cars (EVs):
I'd rather have my car filled up at a socket than filling up at a petrol-station knowing, soldiers are dying for my convenience.



Just my two cents.

;-)

 

mph

apart from the boot and room the rest are mostly extras on both. And stating that the boot and that there isnt enough room is null by my point of view, because the majority of Prius owners I see are all driving with nothing but themselves in the car with no luggage! so why not just save the 8.5k and get the aygo!
Also, you still haven't addressed my point that theres no use in hybrids when a diesel can get as good mileage. I see no point in them until they are either all electric with 100+mileage/charge and can do 70mph, or they whack a diesel in there with the motor - theres no point in a "efficient" system if the efficiency of one part (the petrol engine) can be improved vastly.

 

Um, there's a Porsche dealer in my town like 700m from my house. There was a theft there 3 years ago. The thieves crashed a van on the front door and escaped driving four porsches from the store. The police started chasing them through the speedway and catched them in the outskirts of the city but one of them reached Madrid (250km away) in almost 90 minutes.

Quite a shock for a calm town.

 

when i was in the german army i had to drive 330km each weekend back home on friday and to the station on sunday did that one time on a sunday night in 1h45mins you just gotta love german highways without limit:love:

 

It's the high efficiency of the diesel-engine these days. If you drive a diesel you may notice it takes a little longer than a petrol/gasoline engine to reach it's temperature. Thus the reason for manufacturers to add "cold-starting devices" that "save" the heat even though the engine is tuned off. GM has it fitted (Opel, Saab) and FoMoCo aswell (Volvo)...

The problem is, due to the permanent engine on-engine off sequence like on my Prius the diesel would never reach it's temperature without fitting even more technology and making things more expensive.

Not mentioning the fact that a diesel is heavier anyway and adding the extra hybrid components will make it even heavier and somehow the efficiency will suffer.

- VW failed in 1990 with a prototype Diesel-Hybrid Golf
- Audi failed in the late 90s with the Audi A4 Avant Duo (also Diesel Hybrid)
We'll see what Citroen-Peugeot will make of it in 2008/2009, when their planned Diesel-Hybrid is supposed to arrive in the show-rooms.


Yeah the German Autobahn... Just yesterday a family of four were involved in a serious accident, when a Mercedes CLK convertible literally ploughed through their Seat Leon doing 220 kph. In the Seat only the father survived whilst the driver of the convertible asked the coppers if the accident was his fault.
No way, I always try and use other roads. Too many idiots driving too fast due to the fact of the over-powered diesels. I mean delivery-vans doing 190 kph (110 mph)... where are we coming to ?

Talking about speeding delivery vans... what was this accident on the M25 today ?

 

Well, my car runs great on ethanol. And it's a Xsara VTS. With ethanol it passed 200HP. Plus, it's a renewable source of power, and no soldiers are needed to be "harmed".

By the way, it's nice to see someone not denying that Bush invaded Iraq only because of the petrol. :clap: Too bad he didn't knew he was going to mess on a wasp nest.

OTAN went on the same "ideals" as him, so they can't deny the stupidity of the invasion.

On the Top Gear thing, it was just an example. I read 3 or 4 articles saying that a Prius is just as good as a diesel. The only difference you pay more to have two engines.

On Electric Cars, as much you can arguee, they still pollute, only not directly. Imagine 2 million of those cars needing to be recharged. More power stations will be needed, meaning more pollution. Why not invest on Hydrogen, Bio-Diesel and Ethanol?

 

Unless you're electricity comes from clean sources (like hydroelectricity here), its more efficient to burn the fuel in the car, as all the time electricity is being transported, it gets lost in heat and sound, so burning oil in the car is cleaner and more efficient then burning oil 25km away.

The local dealership to me is a Chevy one *ewwww!*, but near my family in England is the factory for the one and only Caterham: http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/contact/contact_factory.html
In fact, my entire maternal family is from the area.

 

Thats not really true, as it is more efficient to make lots of energy at one generator, than a small amount of energy in one engine. It also has the benefit of being very easy to switch it to a renewable source (no change for the end user)

 

Imagine 2 million electric cars DRIVING through Brasilia, Minneapolis, Vancouver, Osaka, Adelaide, Johannesburg or London.
Wouldn't those cities be quieter, eh ?

Ethanol or any other fuel has to be processed. In Brazil you may have enough space to plant sugar-cane for your fuel, but we are a bit limited with the space over here in Europe. And we need our crops to feed hungry people and not empty tanks. We don't need problems like in Mexico, where maize-prices have soared, tortilla prices have risen, because maize is being used for bio-fuel....

I think the EV isn't the answer but a large statement against some problems.
Watch the movie "Who killed the electric car ?" and you'll see: The truth is out there !

;-)

 

Not exactly local (maybe 20-30 min drive), but these are very good at Porsche tweaking:

http://www.chilhamsportscars.co.uk/

A funny story:

A posh guy drives up to the garage in his Boxster. There are Porsches galore parked outside, 911s etc. He says to the man there, "Excuse me, I'm looking for the Porsche garage!"

The salesman looks around at his cars, turns back and says, "Well you've done a bloody good job!"

The man looks at the garage in a disgusted manner, and exclaims, "This isn't a PROPER Porsche garage!"

The salesman looks at his Boxster and replies, "That's OK... that isn't a PROPER Porsche!"

The man drove away rather quickly.

 

:thumbsup: Nail on the head with that story...

SO TRUE!!! :nod:

 

I'm just saying that there are other possibilities. Don't want to use ethanol? What about Natural Gas? Hydrogen?

Electric cars won't solve our problems. You complain about food prices rising, what about electricity costs? I know about the movie, and i know GM did something very stupid, but let's move on. No one invested on electric cars anymore, they moved forward making hybrid like the Prius you like so much.

Brazil developes lots of bio-fuels, not only Ethanol from sugar-cane (E25). Bio-Diesel from a variety of sunflower seeds, soybeans, and castor beans.

For ethanol, Brazil produced around 16.4 billion liters and used 2.7 million hectares of land area for this production (4.5% of the Brazilian land area used for crop production in 2005). Of this, around 12.4 billion liters were produced as fuel for ethanol-powered vehicles in the domestic market. We have been doing this for 30 years and we had no problems with food prices because of it. Why? Because there was planning and government supervision.

Plus, i don't know if you know this, but we don't have cars running on Diesel in Brazil. Only commercial vehicles, trucks, vans, and off-road vehicles are allowed to use Diesel. The Bio-Diesel development is not only for them, but for industries as well. The same way Natural Gas is used by industries and vehicles (cars, buses, ... ). Ford released the Ranger pickup truck with a Natural Gas cylinder and also a Diesel fueltank. So those kind of vehicles already have the ability to use Natural Gas as well.

Why don't the european and US governments, that are so worried about this, try to help the countries in Africa, making them produce some kind of those fuels (ethanol, bio-diesel,... ) and help the real hungry people? This could help them socially and economically, and of course help european countries needing a different type of fuel.

Our government already helped some countries in Africa, teaching them how to produce ethanol.

Also, the flex-fuel technology let's you fill your tank with any combination of fuel you want. You can fill it with 100% of gasoline, 100% of ethanol, or a combination of both. In the same fueltank. If you install a natural gas kit on a flexfuel car, a cilinder will take some space from the trunk, but you can choose between gasoline + ethanol or ethanol at any given time. Even with the engine on and in the middle of the road. You simply press a button and it's running on Natural Gas. Cheap and simple technology. Flex-fuel cars (gasoline + ethanol) are the same price of normal gasoline-only cars, and a Natural Gas kit can be installed for 2000 Reais (1.000 dollars).

You guys in europe have to develop more the hydrogen technology. It seems like a good solution. But like i said, i don't think electric cars will help in any way.

Anyway, some stuff worth-reading:
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817
http://www.financialsense.com/editorials/weiss/2007/0409.html
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5829046/
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2006/02/06/8367959/index.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicle#Flexible-fuel_vehicles_in_Brazil
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/05/peugeot_introdu.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethanol_fuel_in_Brazil

 

Ethanol is a great idea but where is all the crop going to be grown to replace oil? There are too many cars in the world.

It is one alternative though.

Plus, selfish though it is, we don't want to encourage more deforestation in Brazil to make room for maize fields.

 

Deforestation won't happen. At least not here. Using only 5% of our crop area, we have some many fuel, that we even manage to export.

The most problems with deforestation in Brazil are because the lands are used to plant Soy and other types of beans. And also, some areas are used for cattle-raising.

I'm not trying to be an ethanol ambassador here. I was just trying to say Electric-only cars aren't the future.

Hybrids, Flex-Fuel and Hydrogen are the way to go. :thumbsup: