We really don't have rules for necrobumps guys. Sometimes it's best to put useful information with other useful information and not start another thread.
As a Mac guy I thought it was cool to see the G5 cases being used as the dev kits. Never saw this thread before.
It does seem a little strange that Microsoft adopted PowerPC only a year or so before Apple made the transition from PPC to Intel processors.
Well this bump is on topic and relevant. Not like some of the others we see "cool" or "lol". So it's weird someone jumped out of their chair.
It's not strange if you read the book http://www.amazon.co.uk/Race-New-Game-Machine-The/dp/0806531010 Sony asked IBM to help with a PowerPC project with features that Sony wanted, Microsoft heard about the chp and paid IBM to deliver a chip based on the Sony design to them as well. Sony/Toshiba & IBM engineers worked on the project, but IBM lied about the reasons behind some of their suggestions for how things should work. To the point they managed to delay the project to squeeze in some Microsoft requests (which I think were limited to threading changes). The arrangement was kept secret because IBM knew that Sony & Toshiba would stop agreeing to their suggestions if they realised that they were developing the CPU for the competition. I guess they could have given out prototype hardware sooner, but kept with the G5 to the last possible moment to avoid getting found out.
In the end those G5 chips were not the greatest as they required alot of fans to keep cool. There was no way a G5 could be put into a laptop which was a large reason why apple switched to Intel. The chips were very fast for their time though and kept up with the fastest pcs.
I am glad the thread was bumped, this info is very interesting, I had no idea Microsoft did this fort 360 demos...
bump (ow nooss, someone bumbs this thread again) Is it posible to recreate a Xenon alpha like the xbox (1, classic) alpha? I can get my hands on a Powerpc G5 soon, and I think the specs are close. What where the specs and is someone able/willing to share some code to test if the powerpc i get is able to run this? Now if you do have a kit like this, please share some info, I only found some powerpc code for the kernel (before xenon hardware), for in a emulator(thats a silly MS project btw). So litle info on this Xenon Alpha if software is available and stuff like that, ill make a new thread. Is this correct? ill correct it if wrong. ATi X800 videoprocessor - DirectX 10 support R420 core G5 PowerPC CPU 512 MB Memory
From the Apple Label: Serial No: XB351065NVB (You can google MAC specs by serial number btw) 100 120V/200-240V 6.5A/3.5A 50-60Hz 2GHZ DP/PCI-X/512MB 400/160GB/COMBO/R9600/56K Video Card ATI X800 XT 256MB AGP MAC edition (Dual DVI) [TABLE="align: center"] [TR] [TD="width: 619"][TABLE] [TR] [TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][TABLE="class: news, align: center"] [TR] [TD="colspan: 2"]Serial Number: XB351065NVB[/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: category, width: 100"]Model:[/TD] [TD="class: result, width: 325"]- Power Mac G5 (CTO) [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: category"]Codename:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- No codename assigned. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: category"]Build Country:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- This unit was built in Sacramento, CA, USA. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: category"]Build Year:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- This unit was built in 2003. [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: category"]Build Week[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- Your Mac was built in week 51 of that year (December). [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: category"]Production Nr.:[/TD] [TD]- This unit was number 209 to be built that week. [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [TD][/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [TD="width: 340, align: right"][TABLE] [TR] [TD="width: 12"][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [/TR] [TR] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE] [TR] [TD="width: 12"][/TD] [TD="width: 814"][/TD] [TD="width: 12"][/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="bgcolor: #FFFFFF"][TABLE="align: center"] [TR] [/TR] [TR="class: titles"] [TD="width: 396"]Processor[/TD] [TD="width: 11"] [/TD] [TD="width: 336"]Memory[/TD] [TD="class: news, width: 60"][/TD] [TD="width: 11"] [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD][TABLE="align: center"] [TR] [TD="width: 15"] [/TD] [TD="class: category, width: 125"]Processor speed:[/TD] [TD="class: result, width: 256"]- 2 x 2.0 GHz [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="class: category"]Processor Type:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- PPC, G5 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="class: category"]Number of Cores:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- 1 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="class: category"]Bus Speed:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- 2 x 1.0 GHz [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="class: category"]Cache:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- 512K per processor [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="class: category"]64-bit Support:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- No [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="class: category"]Turbo Boost:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- No [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [TD] [/TD] [TD="colspan: 2"][TABLE] [TR] [TD="width: 15"] [/TD] [TD="class: category, width: 114"]Installed RAM:[/TD] [TD="class: result, width: 267"]- CTO [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="class: category"]Max. Amount:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- 8.0 GB [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="class: category"]Amount of Slots:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- 8 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="class: category"]RAM Speed:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- 400 MHz [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD] [/TD] [TD="class: category"]RAM Type:[/TD] [TD="class: result"]- PC-3200, DDR, SDRAM[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE] [TABLE] [TR] [TD="class: category, width: 113"]Introduction: [/TD] [TD="class: result, width: 268"]- June 2003 [/TD] [/TR] [TR] [TD="class: category"]Discontinued: [/TD] [TD="class: result"]- June 2004[/TD] [/TR] [/TABLE]
On another note these G5's have a sticker over the onboard ethernet port, same material as the serial number stickers used by MS, and used a PCI network card. May help in finding one...
Im glad this post was returned from the dead, i never seen it! Did anyone manage to hack on together?
I agree with you, but only to a point. I frequent the Steam forums around the Source Development section. So many new comers bump old as threads that contain no useful information & they themselves provide no new info (usually just begging for snippets of code). Why does this bother me? Because on that forum, it appears to have some global max amount of topics, & it drops off the oldest ones first. Since I am one of the few people who scours the Internet for readily available information, I don't usually bump any topic to ask questions I can find out on my own. The Steam forums have answered so many source related questions that I was in bliss. But everyday, the useful posts disappear while nubs ask ridiculous questions by bumping useless threads. I know not all forums operate in the same way with deleting old threads, but my animosity against bumpers carried over from that site alone, even if it isn't justified elsewhere. Just a couple of cents.
What I still don't understand is why the timing of Sony and Microsoft adopting PPC just happened to coincide with Apple switching from PPC to x86. I know Apple had been planning the switch for a long time, probably since they initially developed OS X - as it was always intended to run on x86. So I wonder if either of the companies (especially Microsoft) knew about that, and if choosing PPC was somehow a reaction to it.
It's unlikely that Sony, Nintendo or Microsoft knew of Apple's plans, and I'm not sure it would have influenced their decision even if they had. Apple jumped to x86 because of supply and development problems with competitive PPC G5 CPUs from IBM and Motorola/Freescale. While they may have been planning to jump ship for a while, the announcement came as a surprise to everyone when it happened, because nobody thought it would be possible to make a seamless transition (because apparently everybody forgot that Apple had done just that a decade before) using technology like Rosetta. PPC didn't die when Apple jumped ship, though. In fact, Apple weren't even the biggest consumer of PPC processors (I think Ford was at the time) as they were big in the embedded world (and still are). POWER as a whole is still actively developed, with POWER8-based processors just coming onto the market this year.
It has nothing to do with Apple. If I remember correctly Cell began development in 2000. In 2003 MS were looking for a CPU for 360 and asked IBM what it has. Thats all.
Ok, what you guys are saying makes sense. I was wondering about something else, though: was Apple aware that Microsoft was using their machines as Xenon dev kits? I guess Microsoft has no obligation to tell Apple what they're doing with their computers, but it seems likely that they would have found out anyway. Would it also be reasonable to assume that a dual-Power Mac setup would've been much more powerful than the retail 360?
No, the Power Macs were slower and had less cores for the machines they were using. No reason for Apple to know. People within Microsoft are/were known to use Apple laptops
Just some information some of you guys might already have seen/known about the CPU, powerpc and how they made it, its the Xbox guys: Nick Baker, Todd Holmdahl, and Albert Penello https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gOoI57q72M#t=3568 lower part of page 19 http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/access/text/2014/06/102746874-05-01-acc.pdf Nick Baker - "So we took the bus interface that the real three-headed monster [i.e. the real CPU] was going to have and take an essentially off-the-shelf PowerPC part from IBM and bolt on a bus interface adapter. So we… it talked to the GPU. And so for first few months, we were actually able to start bringing up the kernel and writing code" And I dont know, but maybe project Giano had to do with this part (publications seems to appear after the release) http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/projects/giano/ So I hope the bumb is fine with most of us
