Banjo Kazooie-Tooje connection Myth...

I wonder if anyone ever tried to reverse engineer the asm code of the famous cheated menus of the above said games...any info about it would be appreciated because I am seriously thinking to give it a try!

 

welcome to the 'Stop n Swap' discussion.

Did anyone ever assume BK was a 64DD title? Stopping and swapping a gamepak isn't advisable you know

 

Thats why they didnt risk it as there was no gurantee that all the hardware revisions would act the same way with it. A very clever idea though.

Plus there was no telling what would happen if a totally different game was inseted after the swap.

Glad the cheat codes were eventually found so i could finally explore all the hidden areas & get all the eggs even if they dont actually do anything. Its just nice to see (^_^)

 

I would insist on keeping stop-n-swap distinct from the hidden areas.

Allow me to explain.

"Stop n Swop" is an easily understood concept in terms of 64DD.

The inclusion of hidden areas though could have easily been 'linked' to a second game by:

a) a memorypak save transfer of the requisite data

b) a lock-on cartridge.

It is for this reason that although the Items and Hidden areas ARE accessible through cheat-codes, the "Stop n Swop" menu is only accessible via GameShark.

 

The stop & swop menu is acessable without a gameshark.

The catch is it only appears once you have one of the eggs or the key & once you have it you cant delete it.

By using one of the sandcastle cheat codes you can get a egg & unlock the menu.

It would have seemed a lot easier to do a 64DD style swap like you mentioned though, it would make more sense.

 

Also, keep in mind that Stop n Swap could indeed be reffering to more than one sequel.

As in, have a GamePak on top, and BK2 and 3 being releeased on 64DD, swap between the 2nd tha 3rd game, while keeping the gamepak in place.

I just did a little quick search and there are some people claiming that Banjo Tooie does a mempak search when loading. (rumble pak?)

But the thing to look out for would probably be memorypak support in BK. Something that wasn't even drawn on the Game's features on the box.

 

What? I do it all the way :lol:

Ok, now that we have the background of the (in) famous Stop'n'Swop menu, do you know of someone who tried to reverseengineer it? On my side, I've heard nothing of.

 

Well, another rumour was the fact that in early versions of the N64, the rambus ram had a memory retension issue, in which it kept data in the ram for about 5-7 seconds after poweroff (allowing a fast of/on w/ a game swap - could carry over data)

Just a rumour tho, take it as you wish.

 

7 seconds? those capacitors should look like batteries

 

More information on Stop 'n Swop...

http://www.rarewitchproject.com/specials.php?id=dk64sns

It's somewhat possible from a hardware standpoint. By loading all game data to the rambus RAM, and stopping cartridge DMA transfers (primarily caused by the sequence player), you should be able to keep the game running, insert another cartridge, read/write the EEPROM, and put the original back in.

Since this process has plenty of potential for abuse/nast phone calls, it's easy to see why Nintendo didn't allow this.

 

nice link marshallh.

The item they refer to as a locker has been usually called a shower in DK64.

The Conker game refferred to (although i can't be sure where in conker BK appears other than the closet) would only make sense if it was 12 Tales: Conker's Quest (finished but unreleased)

Stop n Swop on DK64 must have been implemented after the game's change of medium, from 64DD (although, I have no clue how much of it was even completed for the 64DD)

The coolest thing I can imagine doing between DK64 and BK would be having playable characters from one to the other, but this is highly unlikely, considering the different abilities and the number of characters in DK64.


I see their website hasn't been updated since 2003 though. So much for 'hard work'

on a very important note, next month's Retro Gamer has a 'making of Banjo Kazooie' interview. I wish they had queried about Stop n Swop, although I doubt that they have.

 

I was kinda under the impression Twelve Tales got put on hold at some point, to then be conituned and re-designed into what ended up as Bad Fûr Day.

The Rare Witch Project is updated every now and then (most recently about the GoldenEye level editor v2.0), but it's true that that article is untouched since 2003, but I guess if there's been any new discoveries/information at all related to the "Stop'n Swap", it's probably been posted in the news, in a new article or most likely on their forums.

Stop'n Swap is without doubt one of the most curious things for the N64, and funny that Rare had two different features on the N64 that ended up vanishing during developement/before release. (Stop'n Swap and GB Camera usage in Perfect Dark)

 

No.

US, January 22, 1999 - Welcome to Ed's weekly Rumor Report.

http://uk.ign64.ign.com/articles/066/066534p1.html



If you look on the internet, (years ago) in an interview, when conker first came out on the n64, the guys said Twelve Tales was completed, but they decided to scrap the project because it was too similar to Banjo. Actually Conker was always over-shadowed by Banjo, even during early expos. Back then the game was called Conker 64, then Conker's Quest, which was not finished, scrapped and finally Twelve Tales was developed and finished.

Both Banjo and Conker were based on project Dream. (woodland creatures+ hurdy gurdy, you get the concept). Eventually, to avoid market confusion with Banjo being more dominant amongst commentators, the Conker IP was 'optimised' for younger audiences (think kids), and sported an extremely kiddy/cute look and overall feeling. Conker's Pocket Tales is a reflection of that in part.

Elements of Twelve Tales have made it on Conker's Bad fur day actually, including some characters and some general settings (eg the Windmill).

Speaking of Stop n Swop, just finished DKR on the DS today (putting aside the fact that the game is pussyfied compared to the N64 version, and made extremely kiddy with lame voices) and I noticed the existence of a Crystal key - obviously unrelated to anything on the n64, but the idea of crystal keys seems popular at Rare.

I m under the impression that Stop n Swop was inspired by Diddy Kong Racing, as Diddy, Banjo, and Conker were all in the same game, it would be nice for the gang to re-unite in their later adventure games, it seems.

Granted that there's alot of material pointing to Stop n Swop in Banjo, I think the feature might have been more likely dormant than removed. the image showing DK's face in the game select screen speaks for itself. They wouldn't release the image to the public if it wasn't to tease them anyway.



In addition, the "shower" compartment in DK's hut was removed very late in the development cycle, well after the game was completed.

Banjo Tooie was released much later than DK64, so no big mystery as to why no Stop n Swop material is found there.

Who knows, maybe Twelve Tails had something interesting going on.

Obiter:

After watching the credits on DKRS it said : " Some characters reserved by Rare" - Although Banjo and Conker were replaced by Tiny and Dixie, i would bet Tiptup, Bumper and some other bastards are property of rare as well - only left out because (for now) they have no console game title fame to 'risk' on a nintendo console. - Although Banjo did have 2 GBA games (Banjo Pilot, and the platformer)

Some useful stuff on Conker 64 : http://uk.ign64.ign.com/objects/002/002154.html

 

Is it just me that went thru Nintendo patents way back when and saw that piggy-back or pass-thru cart for the N64?

Could be worth a look.

[EDIT: did a quick search but couldnt find the correct patents....but here are some other ones
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPATRE35520
http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT5785598]

Shiggsy

 

this might be a bit off-topic, but they [nintendo] could have implimented a STOP swtich between ON and OFF, specifically for cart. swapping.

STOP could keep contents in some specified higher RAM address range, power LED on, but PI and other functions off (Thus all I/O), and the processors.

 

Did none of you ever hotswap carts on the Genesis/Mega Drive back in the day in order to enable chats/odd functions?

This was long before the advent of the Game Genie/Game Shark/Pro Action Replay. Hell, some of the mags used to include working combos in their codes sections.

-hl718

 

Not really, never tried it.

Static electricity discharge from the removed/inserted cartridge could potentionally fry the weaker elements of a cartridge/console, and this always scared me

 

Given the state of hardwrae these days, I'd agree with you.

But back then the hardware was pretty tank-like.

Besides, when you're little you don't think about things like "static discharge!" You just want to try out the new cheat!

-hl718

 

hehe, I actually did! as a five year old I wanted (for some reason) to design my own cathode-ray TV! I had relatively good knowledge of electrics for my age, as I had personally experimented with sticking wires in the 220V outlet!

 

....which is the best experience you can start with :lol:!
Jokes apart, I wish I had more time to trace down some of the Stop'n'Swop routines...