Becoming a permanent resident.....

I was wondering if anyone here is a permanent resident of Japan. I was thinking about going for mine but I'm not exactly sure if I'll be exchanging temporary headaches for permanent ones.

I don't plan on spending the rest of my life here but I don't want to have to worry about work. Right now I have a company and I sponsor myself, and it's been an expensive process just to keep my visa (corporate taxes, accountants, etc.). I'd like to ditch the company and just keep doing what I've been doing as a permanent resident, plus if I do go home and want to return in 5 years time I thought it would be more convenient with the perm. It would also open me up to jobs where I can travel back and forth to and from Japan more easily, if that's what I decide to do in the future.

But....I'm not sure of the downside. I don't want to get a permanent residency, move back to the US, then find that I have to contribute to national health even while I'm gone or something like that. I'm also wondering if they require you to stay in Japan for any period of time....naturally so bums like me don't get permanent residency and go home and just keep the status in my pocket for future possibilities.

I'm also curious about pensions. I can keep filing in the US and getting an exemption on the taxes while still contributing to social security so that will be there for me when I go back. I'm wondering if I could also be a part of the Japanese pension system and get that when I'm older as well. Naturally I'd be paying into both systems, but having dual pensions from 2 different countries seems like a nice security blanket.

So....any horror stories? Any pros or cons? Any stories that begin with, "Whatever you fucking do, don't ever become a permanent resident..."

 

I'm a permanent resident of Japan. There is NO real true way of becoming one but there are ways that you can help your case.

1. Marriage is always a strong point although it doesn't necessarily mean you will be accepted as another member here knows.

2. Money. having at least 5 million yen to your name will help a lot. No debts with banks or anything on credit is also a major plus. This was actually told to me by the Yamaguchi city officials.

3. Law. These days I'd be fucked if I tried to apply due to having 2 speeding violations. Yep. Even something as stupid and pretty much harmless as a speeding ticket can seriously damage your chances. So if you've been in trouble with the law for anything more serious than speeding (Which I doubt you have) then you can kiss your permanent resident status goodbye.

4. Length. I was also told by the Yamaguchi City official that to apply for permanent residency, you must have lived in the country for at least 5 years.

Yakumo

 

Yeah, this is bullshit though. There are "suggested" guidelines but there is no rule at all. Zero. Zilch. Anyone can apply. Go over to J-Ref... you'll here of people getting them only w/ 3 years + marriage or even less qualifications. When I got my last spousal I asked the Eijuu helpdesk and they suggested to apply after living 3 years consecutively in Japan while being married. I've got 10 of residence but there's a 2 year break which is a bit of a strike.

Apparently the only constant in the whole process is they will check to make sure you've been paying your taxes.

Only America makes it citizens pay taxes while not residing there. National Healthcare is based on your previous years declared income in Japan. If it's zero, you owe zero.

The one catch to PR, is you have to get your visa renewed ever X years. 10 I think. If you're not in the country and the visa expires, it's done.

I'm actually going to turn my papers in soon. The goal was to do it by the end of the year last year, but never got around to it.

 

I was in immigration last week and they said they've just changed the rules where you can apply for permanent if you've been living/working in Japan for 5 consecutive years. Before that it took 10 years. I went there last year and ask since I was at the 9 year mark and I was hoping they'd let me apply early but they said no....

I meet all of the requirements, I don't have any problems with the law, I have records of paying taxes every year (even city taxes! heh), the money issue shouldn't be a problem, etc.

BUT....I thought that becoming a permanent resident meant you don't have to worry about visas anymore? That's the biggest reason why I want to do it....I have a business/investor visa but I'm limited by what I can do in terms of work besides own my own company and sponsor myself. I want to be able to apply for any job that comes along. Does the visa they give you limit you in any way?

About US taxes....you don't really have to pay. You're exempt up to $80,000 but since you don't have to verify anything I can't imagine anyone has ever filed taxes that exceed $80,000 in income even if they really do. The difference is social security.....if you don't pay into that then it will affect what you receive in the future. That's what I meant by saying I could live in either Japan or the US and pay into both systems and have 2 pensions waiting for me when I'm older. So I'm basically paying income taxes in Japan and social security in the US, but I'd like to start paying into a Japanese pension to have the double pension when I'm older.

 

They fed you a line.
http://www.moj.go.jp/ONLINE/IMMIGRATION/16-4.html
There are no requirements on spousal status or years of residence... of course the more the merrier.

Also not true. Not entirely, anyway. Your passport does not belong to Japan, or to you. Japan does not have the authority to ask you to give up your passport/citizenship, they can simply not recognize you as a Japanese. Of course, this never happens. Debito tried to give his passport to some Japanese authorities and they would not take it. Anyway, I know dozens of people with Japanese & some other passport, and nobody that's given one up. The US rules basically state the same way, although it's very vague. You technically can make "no other alliances" but of course, thousands have dual citizenship.

There's a little more to it than that, but that's the main one. Others are you get some voting rights, and loans are easier to get. You still must have a re-entry visa. That visa itself must be renewed. If it expires while you're out of the country, your PR is null & void. That is the catch that was explained to me anyway.

Sorry to piss on your parade, but yes, you do. Japanese & US governments are in cahoots. If the US is going to audit you, they can very easily check what you've reported as your taxes in Japan, and vice versa. You're also supposed to report any foreign bank accounts that have more than $10k in them (thanks, Patriot Act!). The fine for not doing it is quite hefty. As a long term resident of Japan (even w/o PR) you are technically responsible to pay some taxes on your worldwide income to Japan as well. But that's beside the point. Back to the US crap: as a US citizen you are required to declare your income (even below the $80k foreign earned income exclusion) every year. If you're bullshitting it to not pay taxes, it is simply tax fraud. Since most people's Japanese income leaves a paper trail, bullshitting the US side is a terrible idea. Technically, you don't have to pay any taxes... but if you get caught, you're fucked.

Also a terrible idea. You're basically stating the following things by voluntarily paying into two really fucked up systems:
1: That they can invest and handle your money better than you.
2: That you believe both will be around when you retire.

Invest your money yourself in your own IRA. It will yield you more in the long run. Or, you can get some type of mixed insurance policy. I have a life insurance policy through Prudential Japan that covers my family if I die. If i live, I get a nice chunk of change every year from 65 up. Not enough to support my family, but it will help.

EDIT: You should talk to Yakumo about his Japanese Social Security experiences. I guess you didn't read that post a few years ago.

 

Thanks for the info.

So I won't need a working visa, just the reentry visa?

Maybe I'm confusing permanent residence with citizenship. After reading your post they sound like one in the same. I didn't really think of it along those lines.

For taxes, you don't have to pay taxes on the first $80,000, but you do have to file and you do have to pay into social security. I think we're saying the same thing. I was just saying that I don't pay income taxes to the US, I pay them to the Japanese government, so there's no worries about a paper trail. The taxes are paid and I have the papers to prove it. All part of the headache of owning your own company...a 130,000 yen accountant bill every year (not my tax bill, the fee for them doing my company taxes for me)...one expense I'd like to eliminate by being a permanent resident.

I'll look into the life insurance thing. I remember hearing about that when I was in my early 20s....but blew it off since I was in my early 20s...heh. Also, doesn't Japan have some system where you get money after contributing for 20 years? Something like 10,000 yen a month? Stuff like that I'd like to have that in case I ever marry a Japanese wife or have kids so they can have that in Japan if they need it.

 

They are very different. As a permanent resident you can vote in local elections only. You can still opt to pay social security in either Japan or your home country. You have a Japanese passport. You also have basically zero chance of actually getting citizenship so no sense in worrying over it.

I understand how foreign earned income exclusion works. My business is set around having to pay as little tax as possible. My accountant bill is way higher though. You only have to pay social security to one of the two countries, never both unless you want to.

Japan's SS is the 20 year thing. If you pay into the kousei nenkin system for 19 years and 11 months then retire, you don't get a dime (or a yen, in this case). In fact, I think you have to have 20 years paid in before you hit retirement age, not actually hit retirement. However, they've got all sorts of issues. I guess you weren't watching Japanese news 4 years ago? When they switched to a digital storage system they lost thousands and thousands of records. The official stance was "bring in your old pay stubs". This is the system you're entrusting your hard earned money to.

The most consistent investment advice I've ever received is to assume SS and Japan's Kousei Nenkin systems will not be around when you retire, and save your own. I lose a few percent a year on my insurance/retirement policy investment, but it's a fixed loss, and is basically the cost of the insurance policy.

The one thing you should worry about as an American living abroad is what happens if you develop a terminal or chronic illness here and want to go back to the US. We've made the step in the right direction but I'm afraid such a person is still massively fubar.

 

Are you sure about that. I still have a British Passport even though I'm a permanent resident. A permanent resident also still needs to get re-entry visas if they leave the country. Rertarded isn't in it.

 

I meant as a (naturalized) citizen...

Even people with "Special Permanent Residency" which is the nice way of saying, "I am the descendant of sex slaves from WWII" also require the re-entry permit. I can sum up Japan in one sentence. Toilet's are in the space age, laws concerning human rights in the stone age.

 

You mentioned voting.....but for me it's mostly a working visa issue. The only reason I have a corporation is to sponsor myself. I want to get rid of the corporation and continue to do the same online work I'm doing now, but do it as an individual. I'd also like the option of picking up any other job in the future without having to worry if my business/investor visa would prevent me from doing that.

The tax game is a bit of a bitch....I don't want my company showing too much of a profit because they tax companies at 35%. But I don't want my company showing too little of a profit because it might make renewing my visa a problem if they think I'm not profitable. So I always have to walk the line between salary and profit and try to maximize things without going too much in either direction. The first time I applied for my business visa I showed a nice profit for my business and that helped to get the visa, but I lost a large chuck of it to corporate taxes....sucked.... Ever since then I show a smallish profit with a good salary since my salary is taxed at a lower rate....

 

Haha -- I don't even think Japanese people vote.

Talk to your tax guy. If I understand everything correctly, the only time you'll save more money doing the job as an individual is if you don't make enough to cover the costs of incorporation, which I'll gander you've already paid.

This is pretty much the least of your worries. Not saying it won't come up with an employer, but I wouldn't actively seek a visa status change because of it.

Small businesses simply don't report huge profits in Japan, for exactly what you said: although after X amount, it's like 22% (and I think the top part is 30%, not 35% but I wouldn't bet my house on it). It sounds like your tax guy is lousy, to be honest. Japan is write-off heaven for small businesses...even more so than individuals.

I think you did it wrong. You need to show a decent profit for both you and the company... not a strong one for just the company. You got the visa, so you won, but plenty of small businesses have their companies scratch for the year and the individual makes the profit. Mine for one, makes very little.

 

I just got my Permie today - just got back to office. Glad mainly because this should mean less time spent in that Shinagawa sh1t hole.

However, i was rejected back in 2008.

I had 2 and a bit years of marriage and 8 years residence, we hadn't bought the house or had the kid yet so i had a load of savings. When i went to hand in the forms, they asked me to come back on another day to assess my "suitability" and i had to bring the wife. They specifically mentioned that i should, really, have 3 years of marriage or 10 years residence - i know that this only ever seems to come up as a fuzzy guide line but thought i'd note that it -did- get mentioned.

Anyways, so we went and they interviewed us - they said it would be no issue and i should just submit the forms and i'd get the Permie.

lol, X months later i get the "REJECTED" letter with instructions on how to contest the decission. There was a section that read "reason for rejection:" which simple stated "there is no reason to give you it"

Now, here's the thing - we were definitely going to start trying for kids that year and we were toying with the idea of possibly leaving Japan and going to start up some other country (taking our nice fat dual income taxes with us). This was -potentially- part of the decission process because we were having some trouble getting Banks to talk to us without me having the permie. Oh yeah, and then you get the note saying you can't apply for another year! :/

Anyways, all that is over now. Thank God.

 

Sounds like they outsource the gaijin credit card rejection companies to write the letters for PR rejection.

But, congrats. I'm going to turn my papers in soon. Even w/ me committing the unforgivable sin of leaving Japan for 26 months, I have 3 years of married, consecutive residence. 10 years of straight residence and 7 of married if they even check. Hopefully I'll get it. And yes, the main upside is not having to go to Shinagawa. For what it's worth, Japanese immigration people are on average nicer and smarter than their counterparts in the states.

EDIT: Am I right in thinking you only have to turn in 3 forms:
1: Certificate of Eligibility
2: PR Application
3: Letter of Guarantee

? I assume your father-in-law is your guarantor?

And another edit worth mentioning, especially JG. My tax guy specifically asked me the first year he did my taxes if, "I intended to live in Japan forever". It had nothing to do w/ my visa status, but apparently there is a nice custodial tax applied to you if you are. I assume once you get PR, the jig is up and you'll have to check that box on your tax forms.

 

going off memory - so i will check this when i get home, but i think you also need :

Your juminhyo
your family juminhyo
proof of employment with Salary (if available)
proof of wife employment with Salary (if applicable)
Koseki Tohon
Last years tax papers

all in all doing the "got 10/3 years" way is MUCH easier than the other way. I had to provide a load more documents and also had to write a 1 page explaination as to why i deserved Residency (in Japanese :/)

No idea what will happen with that - Tax hell coming my way no doubt.

 

1: Do you have links to these from MOJ's site? I don't see any mention of it, but I'm no so smart.

2: I didn't know gaijin had a Juminhyou, although I guess I am a jumin. I can get it from the ward office?

3: Self employed, and I pay my taxes so taht's all good. I assume I have to turn in all of my houjin tax shit as well. Fun.

4: Koseki Tohon -- again, that's the wife's only, and I'm pretty sure we as the scum of the Earth are not on it, right? Isn't this the whole root of the horribly skewed against gaijin custody debacle? No koseki = no custody.

Yeah, my "reason" for wanting one will be for easier acceptance into private schools for my kid, if they ask. The whole bank loan thing helps, too!

 

I got my list from a friend who got an official "Bring this" list from the Shinagawa office - will have to dig it out at home, the MOJ site is horrific.

yeah, you have one - there was a bit of a thing with that as i didn't have the wifes one when i handed in the forms and they were a bit peeved. lol

yup - i need to find this out for my mother in law who is self employed and is going to apply for her perm. too.

yeah, i didn't get this one at first because, like you say, we aren't on it. It's to do with if you provide the Koseki then you skip proving 3 other documents for you wife/offspring.

Again, will check once i get home for the list i got and used just in case i am missing anything.

 

GP, what kind of business do you have? Kabushiki Gaisha? That's what I am. I was told that the corporate tax rate is 35% (or maybe 36%). There is no tiered structure. It was actually on my accountants advice to show more of a salary and less of a profit because my salary will be taxed at a lower rate than company profits.

I'm guessing you have a spousal visa? That's probably the night-and-day difference in our situations. The job thing is one of my biggest stumbling blocks. I'm the president of a company and my full-time job must be president of that company. If I work for any other company it requires a waiver from immigration, and it can only be part-time work.

Also, my company has a registry which lists out the work that it's allowed to do. If something isn't listed there, then my company can't do it. If my company can't do it, then I can't do it. Changing items in your company registry is a 70,000 yen pop....I know because I did it once. Just one of the many fees and stumbling blocks I'm not trying to free myself from.

 

DCharlie:

I called the "soudan" number on MOJ's site. I talked to the guy. Since I own my own company, he said to bring the Touroku Kibo Touhon or whatever the fuck that thing is, plus my personal Juminzei form from last year. But, who knows. I feel multiple trips just to get all the docks in.

Yep. As of about 2005, that's all you can make. There are no more Yuugen Gaisha being made. However, I believe there are 2 types of Kabushiki but you only find out under the sheets.

It was explained to me that it's a two-tier, otherwise flat structure. 30% or 22%. I can ask my guy's office if you want to know. He's quite the ninja. I think he's only a year or two older than me, but has written a few books already, owns his own business, etc.

As for your salary, it depends on how much you're making. You can go north of 40% if you make enough. Thing is, eventually you need to be spending your company's money on business expenses. You can always bonus it out to yourself but you'd be paying tax on it twice, so that's just bad economics.

Yes, I'm a spousal. What you should do (although it might be too late) is have some type of wording in your company's description that says you're a consultant. Anyone that pays you, have them pay your company: not you. Problem solved.

Ah, yeah. Well... as per before... clever wording helps. I put mine in there to where just about anything I do for a non-English speaking, non-technical person or person not residing in Japan is fair game, as I'm a consultant for such people. Then again, I'm on a spousal visa so it's not too big of an issue, AFAIK. I don't do much other than my main job, but it's purposely a broad description.