Component Out - How easy is it to accomplish?

I'm not sure where you're going with that. Analog TVs can't tell the difference between progressive and interlaced. Technically progressive-scan is the "default" type of raster and interlaced video is a video signal trick, not the other way around as people sometimes say. The consequence of progressive scanning on a CRT is that the same phosphors are hit at 60 Hz instead of at 30 Hz, so maybe each line glows brighter since they are intended to decay for 1/30 s (they are chosen for interlaced video), but then all the blank "scanlines" possibly averages this out spatially, I'm not sure. The consequence of progressive scanning on a non-CRT is that the DSP may get confused.

There's no difference electrically between progressive and interlaced. All consoles should be outputting NTSC compliant video signals (technically even RGB and PAL signals are derived from NTSC "IRE" units) for the best signal integrity, many are slightly off however for petty cost saving measures or because they were poorly engineered hence numerous PCB/chip revisions. Also game video has been historically deemed low quality so engineers probably think the signal integrity cuts are justified and will go unnoticed.

 

Hmm I have no technical experience to give much opinion there. But it appears that line of debate would lead us off-track from the topic's purpose. Which is determining what circuit would get the sharpest cleanest image from PCE. Clearly defined object edges are not subjective. Geometric shapes are defined standards with no room for negotiation or interpretation. A square is a square, etc.

 

Are you talking about sharpest image in theory or out of stock PCE hardware? There is no such thing as a perfect amplifier, but you could for example stick a modern 300 MHz HDTV amplifier in a PCE. This is overkill, but it will replicate the signal very very precisely, almost as if the amplifier wasn't there at all. If someone recreated part of the PCE's logic in a FPGA, it's possible to actually output pixels SHARPER than the stock hardware because modern logic is much faster, and the output stage can be designed to better standards. Unless you're using a HD CRT it makes little difference though because even slow logic has very fast transition times, much faster than the bandwidth of a typical CRT can capture.

When I first replied to this thread I had forgotten about the THS amp, that is the obvious solution. There are possibly a few comparable integrated amps out there with higher bandwidth, but 8.5 MHz is pretty good for PCE. For N64 on the other hand you probably want more like 25 MHz (an EDTV amplifier).

Also believe it or not geometric shapes in games are not definitive. Game consoles use different pixel clocks which define the "pixel aspect ratio". Unless a game uses a PRECISELY square pixel clock (which no consoles do) it's impossible to get absolutely perfect geometry on a perfectly calibrated display. The PCE has rectangular pixels so the game designer has to make an oval shape for a circle to appear on the screen.

Interlacing vs progressive doesn't affect it since progressive fills up the same screen real estate vertically.

 

Yes, my PCE version is the original japanese one, with RF output only. How complex is to recreate that amplifier? Is there a kind of guide? I tried searching over the internet, and only found the rgb mod that I´ve already performed... ( and I want to play now because I had no prevision of getting another rgb for next months anyway ... )

Thanks!

 

Within the realm of PCE's core hardware. Cleaning up its video with amplifiers or encoders is OK.
It'd likely be excessive effort relative to benefit, to do things like develop a new PPU.

 

I think I'm gonna pass on the rest of Calpis's hypochondriac BS here... so long...

 

Yeah don't try to digest the whole thing at once. Keep his overall idea in mind, in case you run into trouble. Video errors are frustrating...

 

Overall idea? As I said... hypochondriac BS

 

The part about signal levels correct for your TV. Remember what I said about Genesis with RGB-to-component on my CRT.

 

Yes the screen rolling you mentioned. But I never had any problems with signal levels and I've made many mods on many kinds of consoles, ever on retro computers and I'm always testing them on 5 sets to confirm they work on all of them.

If the console has RGB out by factory default like the Megadrive I, or MasterSystem I, etc then make a correct scart cable and it is bound to work.
If it doesn't then make a mod and a correct cable and it will probably work.

 

How do you know? Testing it on 5 tv's doesnt mean its right. It just means its working.

And everything works until it breaks. Look at all the people who killed their dreamcasts by leaving the 12v connected "because it worked" (but eventually killed the console).

Just because something seems to be working, doesnt mean its not doing damage to the console or the TV. Or that the TV is being very forgiving and displaying it correctly despite it being wrong.

 

What would you do to avoid PCE video distortion then?

 

I have never seen/owned a PCE - but that isnt my point. I am not commenting on how to do something, just that his reasoning for arguing is completely flawed.

I also do not claim to know a great deal about analog electronics.

However, I am not the one arguing with someone that does, with the only retort being "but it works!" by testing it on 5 tvs, rather than actually investigating signal levels with an oscilloscope .

 

I guess so. I don't know what signal levels are correct for my TVs. Without that info, an oscilloscope will only tell part of the story.

 

And Calpis does, which is kinda the point in all this.

 

Hence why I didn't say he was wrong. Not necessarily always being immediately relevant, if even coherent, doesn't make one incorrect. I have enough experience to know when something wrong is displayed on screen. Eyes tell me that.

 

Your eyes cant measure current - which calpis has already said. Your eyes cant tell you if the circuit is correct.

This is the point, people are arguing the circuit is fine because it looks OK. That is wrong.

 

So almost-back-on-topic , one could use a THS for RGB amplification and use sync as-is?

 

Ah yes. More newbie friendly put that way.

 

No we are not just argueing that the cirquit is fine just because it looks OK on screen. Its right because besides looking OK onscreen, it was also designed and published for this purpose (PCEngine RGB) by people with more knowledge on these things than me or most people.
I didn't come up with this cirquit by myself and support that since its working it is OK.
Its been published on this 1988 japanese book and it is proven to work all these years till now, so I guess it was designed to output the correct currents and they were confirmed on the real thing before going ahead publishing it.

So forgive me if i dont give a F about someone else's postings in a forum playing expert on everything.

Bottomline, it may be an "amateur cirquit" but its good enough for PCEngine.