Conspiracy theory from above??

I wasn't aware that I was policing this topic at all. I just thought it was a fun poke at conspiracy theories/ the election, and that some people just kindof killed it with more serious talk. I'm sorry if it sounded like a warning or anything, it wasn't meant to be, just a comment on my part, with no mod action taken or considered - sorry if it came off like that.

 

Yes, and the reason being that neither is sincere in doing whatever they do in the name of their faith, but only use those faiths - and God - as a flag and a blanket cover for the unforgivable wrongs they have wrought.

It is an age-old tradition - the Shiah asassin sects, the Qadyianiyyah, the Inquisition, the Crusades.

 

Point taken -- but you can't say that it wasn't inevitable.

 

I'll be honest with you id-republix. I did not know about that part of the young boys being raped. I will admit my ignorance and take back what I said "Most if not all of them deserved it." Keep this in mind that the guards, etc. were following orders, which were to get information from them any which way they can. Rumsfeld won't be blamed for this but the guy who controlled the prison got 8 years, I hear he's on probation (aka paid vacation).

I just hope you don't think that those events in the prison justify the beheadings done by the insurgents. I have a friend who's father was be-headed, in Saudi Arabia not Iraq, back in June or July. He worked for Lockheed Martin where they sent him over there to do contract work for the Royal Family.

GP:
These radicals are not all for Allah and to preach the teachings of Mohammed. They are all after power. The leaders like Osama, Al Sayr, and many more are all college educated. They read books on history, polotics, world polotics, etc. They know what they are doing, they are not idiots who truly believe if they die for their god they will get 72 virgins. They want their own country, if not, the only country, and have it located where all the massive oil wells are so that they will stay rich for quite some time. They type of governmental system they desire is facism, or islamofacism which is just like that but they use the blanket of Islam to justify their laws. Take Catholocism. When the Pope was truly the emporer of the world, whatever he said, everybody had to obey his orders. If the pope tells you to jump off a bridge, you had to do it, or die, but if you jumped off the bridge and died, you'd go to heaven. What game the pope a greater edge was that the bible was in Latin and none of the lamen folk could read or speak the language, which is why Luther broke away from that church. I believe, what's happening with Islam, is like what happened to Christianity during the late-Roman Early Medieval times where a norm of christianity was founded and you had all these wars and fights until the Rennaissance occured. This time however, it's different, you have a mature religion (CHristianity) and a slightly young religion (Islam). This shit had to happen sooner or later and I think this is the perfect time for all of this to happen. Africa is next :smt043

 

These are horrible things done by bad men...these things aren't new and have been done in every war in the history of mankind...Pres Bush has spearheaded policies to make the justice more swift for these perverts that have slipped into our military...I have no respect for those that have done this but......lets not put President Bush or his Cabinet in the same room holding the camera and clapping for these pervs! Look at it for what it is; sick ass people who did sick ass things and are being punished for it...it doesn't invalidate the entire military action...it certainly doesn't invalidate the hard line drawn on terror harboring states such as Iraq...don't make Bush out to be a Hussein or Hitler.. Hussein encouraged these exact same acts on his own people..Pres Bush is putting a stop to the few sickos in our forces that are torturing and raping....He's not endorsing the acts like their "Leader" we took out of power...say what you will but the Administration isn't the bad guy...

 

I'm as left-wing as they come and I dont' try to make Bush out to be a Hitler or a Hussein. He's his own little quagmire if you will. 4 more years? We'll see.

 

Everything you say is contrary to fact.

hardly anyone has been 'punished'. Many only received 'reprimands'. Some a year in prison. A bloody year. Kapinski should be in the Hague with Milosevic, and so should Bush.

Bush spearheading tougher penalties for these psychos and suckos? Please. They were under orders from their superiors. Who were under orders from Rumsfeld. Who is Bush's man. Who was well aware of what was going in Abu Ghraib, who himself 'spearheaded' the intitiative to derpive the innocent peole in Guantanamo and others of all rights.

your 'Pres Bush' actually give a damn about the Iraqi prisoners? Please. Only after that shit was leaked, and then only a fraction of it to the media.

I repeat:

This includes Bush's awareness and ignoring of AI's reports of war crimes by his troops.

http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGAMR510772004

Which goes to show how much the US administration, no matter who is in power, is goign to care about what happened or take responsibility or action.

Two wrongs do not make a right. I would myself gladly participate in a legitimate Resistance against the US occupation and brutalization of Iraq or any other occupation. But to kill non-combatants cannot ever be justified - beheading or not.

 

Ok id-rebuplix. Amnesty International is a reputable organization so let's compare their grievances to your list. Bear in mind also that Amnesty International got their list form the Taguba investigation.


1. Rape of innocent men against whom there were no charges
[See #6]

2. Rape of innocent women against whom there were no charges whatsoever
[Confirmed that an MP had sex with a female inmate but the report does not say if it was rape (Not that it's right if it wasn't)]

3. Deliberate murder of inmates detained under no charge whatsoever
[Two confirmed cases. One a solider who was tried and convicted and the other was a CIA operative that I could find no information on. I believe neither took place at Abu Gharib]

4. Stripping young girls naked and forcing them to be paraded around in front of jeering soldiers
[Confirmed on the stripping but unconfirmed on the jeering
though I admit it probably happened in some form]

5. Forcing innocent men to masturbate in front of soldiers
[Confirmed]

6. Raping inmates with broomsticks
[Credible but unconfirmed case of ONE man]

7. Raping young boys through sodomy and recording this on video; this video was also brought before Congress; and excerpt form Hersh's testimony
[I could find no evidence of this whatsoever aside from your claim that is based on what Seymour Hersh said in a speech. If you can find any evidence from a credible source I'd love to see it]

You are right that there is no justification for what happened but you tend to embellish what actually did. You need to take your own advice when you tell madhatter to educate himself. As for your statements that Bush and Rumsfield ordered this kind of treatment all I've got to say is back it up with some kind of fact.

 

These are the cases that have been documented, reported, and acted upon - it's a fair assumption to make that this happened on a far wider scale than what we have hard evidence for. It's incredibly unlikely that every last deviant action by the foreign forces in Iraq has been documented and hauled up before a judge. So while id-republix might be liable to criticism for embelishing the facts, it's insignificant as all these events have almost certainly happened somewhere in Iraq over the last couple of years, and plenty more that we'll never hear about. In the face of this I would have thought most Iraqis would be shocked that you debate whether or not the soldiers jeered at the naked girls being paraded in front of them - surely that's unimportant?

 

Oh well life must move on.

 

I tihnk you'd take a slightly different line had you or anyone near to you experienced anything like this.

 

Ok boys and girls playtime is over.

It seems that we can't have normal discussions here because everything that even relates to the USA or the presidents or anything remotely to do with american politics ends up in a little pro-anti war.

Let's stop discussion politics and stick to what this forum is actually about:

Dedicated to rare, prototype, and developers video game systems.

 

...and the politics therein, e.g. squabbles between Nintendo and Sony, leading to the death of SNES CD and the invention of Playstation ;-)

hehe :-D