Anyone remember Croc? As a kid it was a pretty neat game, despite Crash having been out for a year by then and showing how much more detailed a game can look in comparison. These days it looks a bit bland, but it's still a nice memory! Anyway, there's a couple of prototypes floating around out there for a couple years now. Someone put up a video of the later one, which is from February '96, several months before the games eventually September '97 release. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PWhaHIQURM One of the funnest things about the protos is how many different early versions of the music there is. Hopefully a video of the earlier proto will be up eventually.
RE: the uploader's comments. Isn't it a bit hypocritical to say you can't release the game because the original developers wouldn't want you to do that? In that case, they also wouldn't want you to make a youtube video showcasing it. Or for you to own or play it at all. To me you either go all the way and release it anonymously, or you don't mention it at all. Mostly anything else is just a rationalization and excuse to use instead of saying that you won't release it because then it won't be as special anymore. You can't use the reasoning that you "own" it and have no imperative to share it while admitting that you're not supposed to have it. If you're not supposed to have it, why would you tell other people you can't share it because they're not supposed to have it? You could say that it's yours anyway, and you can choose to keep it private if you want because that's your business. Fine, but don't download proto releases other people have uploaded through their own spare time and charity. The only legit reason, imo, is they can't release it because they have a friend in the industry who is supplying these, and that relationship could become jeopardized if protos became leaked. Which just circles back around to my original point, why would they be cool with a video, but not people actually being able to play the game? Sometimes it seems to me that a lot of people in the video gaming hobby really like to cherry pick their own sense of morality.
You pretty much hit the nail on the head there. To simplify the back story, some guy contacted lots of old Croc devs couple years back, and somehow one of them ended up giving him a couple discs. The dev requested they never be shared, but the guy decided to do a private release on the basis that it's "just within[their] community so it's technically not public". Eventually, he vanished and then the people that have it now started making up their own rules for distribution, even though really they have no place to be telling people what they can or can't do with something they weren't supposed to be sharing to begin with. It was a fluke chance I learned about it, but I went a whole year afterwards not being able to obtain it until one day remembering and, luckily, found people that had it and got them to give it to me. That's pretty much it right there. Or at least, it was for me. I mean, despite my confusion, I'm lucky they gave it to me when technically they shouldn't and didn't need to. So I'm pretty grateful and somewhat honored by it. I would have put them out myself by now though if not for the simple fact the original dev ask they never be shared. Far as I can tell they're trying to get more attention to their site, which is why they're being more public(while also keeping it secret. I know, I'm completely lost too). Jez San, former Argonaut CEO, was contacted by one of them before and, funnily enough, wasn't pleased at all knowing they had these. So much for keeping the devs promise of not telling anyone. =p Things are different now since they found out some other company owns the publishing rights or something, so that made it OK. It's a wreck, really. "cherry pick their own sense of morality" sums it up pretty well, and I was going to say something to them in the same manner, but I'm really very much not in any position to be complaining since they technically weren't supposed to even be given to me either. Just sorta got on my nerves since I mentioned making videos once before and was given a strict NO, and now suddenly it's ok. I'd also love to share all the early music with everyone, but according to them that's a very strict NO. Because. Even though the videos have music.... It's only a matter of time before this thing somehow gets out there anonymously anyway I imagine. Won't be by my hands only because whoever the dev is that gave these(who, btw, only the original guy that disappears knows the identity of, so no one has a clue who anymore) probably doesn't want any of this directed back towards them. But hey, if it's suddenly OK so share video, I won't hold back on at least letting people know
Have you ever talked to any developers? Video is entirely different than releasing a build of a game. Ive been given plenty of games to cover that I cannot release, as per the agreements I made. It's not that unusual.
Video conveys far less information, but it's still a violation of trust for people to be able to see things that they weren't supposed to see in the first place. That's where the hypocrisy comes in. It's ok to reveal a certain amount of forbidden info, but not the whole thing, even though both go against the wishes of some person with the actual rights to said product. It becomes a rationalization. Now your scenario is different, since you make no mention of sharing videos of those games you've received. I have no problem with that, especially since I think you'd be the type of guy who actually wouldn't download an iso of a proto that you know the original devs are disapproving of the widespread release. It's the same as a game reviewer or other "insider" that might be privy to things the general public are not. I have a ton of that kind of stuff myself, and I will continue to hoard it until my own "statute of limitations" on such things expires (whether the devs like it or not). So I'm a bit of a cherry picker too.
We're all cherry pickers Fact is, with this proto the original guy who got it wasn't a Borman, that is, someone who does this regularly and knows how to go about things. He even made a "golden rules" post about no posting about the thing anywhere, only to then make an entry on a certain mediawiki that stayed up for a few months before he suddenly took it down. Fact is most people really just want to share stuff so they, as you say, rationalize their own rules. Only a matter of which people you find that have that certain integrity. If it were me that had contacted the dev and got the discs, no one would even know they exist. Well, you know, maybe five or ten years down the line they would have suddenly popped up with no source attached. But not today
Very, VERY late to the party. Plus OP is the one who uploaded those to mega. But id remove those if i were you. Zenimax media is issuing C&D to many sites with these. I got issued one already and had to fax a written letter saying im aware and will stop.
I already posted a couple times and sent an email, this is pretty over as there's nothing new to say. I'm not about to take internet antics to a face to face bout or anything stupid either I know it's macho to say "why don't you say it to my face!?" but no thanks.
I'm doubtful anyone would take anyone to court over a beta of a ps1 game from 1997 - are you aware of the legal costs involved in bringing a case to trial? I'm no legal expert but I'm inclined to think no one would bother... I suspect they're just empty threats and nothing more - designed to scare the offending party. Come on? Let's get back to planet earth here. Even if someone was insane enough to pay all the legal costs what would the outcome be, even if it went in their favour? A slap on the wrists and a polite "don't do it again." - but even that is absolute lunacy - it wouldn't last a minute in any lawyer's office. Croc dev: "We've got someone pirating betas of a game we wrote 20 years ago - what can we do to reel these fuckers in and teach them a lesson?" Lawyer: "Nothing, fuck off and bring me a case with meat on the bones, you know, like someone pirating a game you released in the last few months and could potentially have harmed sales."
You seem to know nothing about copyright laws. A video game copyright lasts 99 years and allows the IP holders to defend and actually states they have to defend their IP to the death, which is why innocent little projects get C&D's like recently, the My Little Pony Fighting is Magic game was closed down because Hasbro had to stop it, not because they wanted to. This doesn't help that Jez San, whom owns all the IP and content to everything his company made before and during it went bankrupt, he owns all their servers, apparently they sit at a storage site he rents. When I contacted him and he innocently asked what content I had gotten a hold of, and I'd told him a copy of the story script, some betas and maybe the source-code which I hadn't even finished looking at at the time, he ordered I immediately destroy all content I had obtained. I complied, I removed all digital copies of the content I had in my possession. The beta CD-Roms however, I could not bring myself to destroy so I sent them back to where they came, which was not a cheap affair at all. And since none of you can get your damn facts right, I will tell you exactly what happened from the beginning. ( By the way, very mature Igra, you're a huge frigging hypocrite and a liar worst of all you broke many peoples trust and faith in communities, hope you are happy that several people no longer visit forums because of you and no they are not myself or vs49688. ) One day I was talking to a friend, let's call him Bob. Bob and I found a common interest in Croc, and at the time I happened to be reverse engineering the game files in order to make modding tools. Recently Bob and I had been contacting developers for another game and had great success in procuring lots of awesome content. We decided we should try the same for Croc and began scouring the internet for contact information on all the developers of the game. As we contacted developers we were met by surprise that anyone even remembered the game, let alone actively played it (which we were doing at the time) meanwhile as we got the responses, I set up a new forum on forumotion as the old one required administrator approval for new members, great to keep bots out but when the admin was rarely able to check the board, bad for new users wanting to join the community and I was getting dozens of "can I join please" emailing me since they saw I was the most actively contributing member at the time. Anyway new forum set up and community moving over, we finally got word back and received a copy of the original story script for the first game. A few weeks later I got an excited email from Bob with a developer included in the list of active people in the conversation, we discussed things for a while and eventually the developer said that they had some pre-release content they'd be interested in sharing with us since we were such avid and excited fans. They made us promise that we would not host the betas digitally in public since they probably shouldn't have the content to begin with (his words) but that they would like other fans to at least get to see the betas if they could without us slapping it on megaupload or something. I agreed as did Bob. We got the betas and for a time we selectively informed individuals and shared the beta with them where we could, private boards were created with user permissions to discuss the topic so that there was no need to post it in public and that we could better organise the information we gleaned from the content. Some time after we received a copy of the source-code, I got it directly and have since destroyed it as mentioned earlier, a shame, so much could have been done with the source, perhaps GOG.com could have released a Windows 7 compatible version of the game, or it could have been sold on Steam and made Jez some quick dollars. During the period between the receiving of the source-code and mid 2012, my friend Bob vanished from the internet due to an incident on another forum, an uprising if you will due to several administrators there blatantly denying they had something we knew they did have, in the end most of us just told them to stick it, we'd have enough but he kept fighting until they broke him down and he disappeared, like an earlier friend had a few years before on the same forum over a similar incident with the same people. Several months passed and suddenly it was mid 2012. A friend of mine, Jack approached me, he'd been on the croc forum for quite some time and proposed we create a new forum, move the database over and start it anew with proper control over styles and the database, and some security upgrades as well as the ability to integrate forum access into webpages. I agreed, it was a good idea because then we could host, say the soundtracks all in one place without worrying about the hosting vanishing overnight like MegaUpload had. Late 2012 the dream was realised and the forum moved, we branched out and contacted all the members from the old forum and notified them that the forum had moved and we like it if they could come back and give the new site a try. A proper set of rules were put into place and we saw some growth for a time, it was great to see the little community growing into something bigger, but still we lacked anyone with enough talent to undertake or assist in projects such as fangames or upgrades of the existing engines after we had cracked many of the file formats and were able to replace low-res textures with higher resolution ones, and even to modify the models if we chose. For a time we were content, things were good and activity was high, lots of new members and some new content sprung up, excitement ahoy and whatnot. Then we decided that the betas should also be uploaded to our little download dump but secured in order to adhere to the wish of the developer, at first I was skeptical because he had requested we share them and my interpretation of that was to give them selectively in order to prevent a global release, but in the end I had to agree, an automated system was far more sensible and less strenuous on our local ISP connections (I only have a 384kbps connection upstream) We endlessly discussed ways to secure them and in the end I was the tie breaker, suggesting a credits system that was invisible to users, they would get a credit for a post and could 'pay' for the beta they wanted, they would also need to have been on the forum for a month and further may have to pass administrator approval before they could get access. The system in trial worked fine, but then more rules were wrought and the credits system was made public, I agree it was a mistake to reveal HOW to get the betas, it should have been a private affair as I had suggested "hidden" but I was not the webhost owner, just an administrator so I allowed it without much fight. More content got uploaded, more that I didn't entirely agree with but didn't bother to argue against again because it was not my server. We had several users attempt to spam the forums in order to smash and grab the betas and bugger off into oblivion, several people we managed to trace via IP across the internet and found they had a habit of doing such a thing, we permanently barred them to keep from abusing our system. And then all seemed good for a while, there were a few unrelated instances where the server owner got upset over something and I had to make them see that deleting our community was not the answer, several times I saved our little humble but growing Croc community from oblivion. And then recently, a user "CoinCollector" whom we have IP traced and we know whom they are and their activities, was posting meaningful content without spamming, we thought he was a pretty cool guy and then he got enough credits, nabbed both betas and basically said "see ya suckers" the forum exploded. I struggled to keep my friend from deleting the entire forum right then and there as punishment. All hell ensued as I tried to stop what I will honestly call the biggest shit storm in my history. And a member of our forum, Igra turned on us, claiming we were tyrants, hypocrites for how we lorded it around with the beta and all that. This upset me, all I had ever done was work for the community, everything I did had been for the fans as a fan and here was this guy who suddenly exploded, pointing a finger and crying "burn the witch" In the end I lost the battle, the forum was purged from the internet, along with all downloadable content all my research on the files was lost everything, gone in the blink of an eye. I decided I no longer wanted to be associated with the community, it was too awful at any rate. So I deleted the deactivated boards on forumotions, within my rights, more hate was sent my way for that regardless. Another user, whom uploaded youtube videos of the betas to share the awesome content within them was attacked also on youtube by one of your very own members here, they have since apologised and deleted their channel but I still am very angry about how they treated this croc fan when they were completely innocent of any of the decisions myself and other community leaders made. And that is the life story of the modern Croc Community. Those are the facts from the horses mouth, believe, me you won't hear them from Bob and Jack wasn't around for half of it. Thanks for doing exactly what the developer did not want you to do, if he finds out, which I think he may as he browsed our forum frequently, he's not going to have a lot of faith in fans anymore. So again thanks for destroying that relationship. The phrase "Say it to my face" was meant figuratively, not literally you moron. Instead of really facing the issue head on you skirted it and said snide things behind it then hid under your rock, this forum in order to say things and laugh without me or other persons seeing. It's, honestly, people like you whom make me have so little faith in the human race.
