I always loved Datel. They always provided me with great tools to hack popular consoles while being legal at that. Datal began marketing a memory card with removeable SD card similar to what I used to make my Gamecube into a Dev clone with debuging and code search functions. Datal has done this kind of stuff for years but Microsoft being the powerhouse they are updated the kernel disabling third party memory units. Datal came back and said Microsoft was unfairly promoting their own memory units by doing so, Microsoft agreed to talk to them and discuss the problem but somewhere in between it lead to an all out lawsuit. I am personally siding with Datal on this one because they are providing a cheap alternative for memory units and Microsoft seems to be out to expand its income putting other buisnesses and customers out on their asses causing customers to lose their investment. I really hope that Datal wins in all this or that Microsoft settles however I have my doubts Datal will win. Discuss.
Source: http://www.techflash.com/seattle/2009/11/datel_sues_microsoft_over_xbox_360_memory_unit_crackdown.html
I think there's a chance datel might win in court. What MS is essentially doing is monopolizing the consumer base on their own memory units. Personally, I think it's grey area in terms of legality. It is their console, and they have every right to do what they'd like with it, but cutting support for a devloped and marketed item from 3rd party companys could be viewed as some border line business tactics :| I'd personally like to see datel win this too, MS is just being a bitch. -Doom
Please look at the iPod accessory market. Now tell me why you think Datel has a chance in hell. Thanks. -hl718
M$ gets sued for monopolizing all the time, in America its illigle to crush small competitors, like datel. Tbh i love datel without them my l33t Pokemon teem wouldn't be a shiny leet Pokemon teem.
I think Datel have a very good chance to be fair, in Europe i believe MS were forced to axe Media Player and Internet Explorer as it made the choice of people and stopped folks considering alternate software. In not sure how this panned out in the states however or Asia, but i wouldnt assume MS would goto the trouble of making a euro only kernel to allow datel hardware.
Holy shit. I called this right when the update disabling the MUs came out. :| I doubt Datel will win, but oh well.
Apple does that shit *all* the time. If your accessory isn't licensed and it has to connect to the iPod electronics to work, expect it to break when there is an update. -hl718
You *are* joking, right? Apple has purposefully broken the Pre support multiple times. Palm made the Pre work in iTunes via a hack. Apple slapped it down. Datel made its memory cards work on the 360 via a hack. MS slapped it down. For the Pre Palm even complained to the USB governing body and was basically told to shut up and go home because Apple was in the right. -hl718
I found it a valid question, I was just asking. I am not saying anyone is in the right or wrong but in all fairness Microsoft's FREE transfer kit does the same "hack" Datal's memory manager can do.
That's the part I found the most amusing. Mysteriously MS have all but run out of transfer cables. They will not ship you one anymore.
It's not quite the same. Datel got its memory card to work by circumventing one of the Xbox 360 authentication systems. Palm got its Pre working with iTunes by making the Pre pretend to be an iPod. Microsoft's HD Transfer Kit doesn't bypass any authentication. -hl718
but there still blocking competition, somebody posted this on qj, and i thought it brought up some valid points. ______________________________ "MS is locking out a competing product. The memory cards are the same, only Datels have a higher capacity for the same price. This is MS trying to kill 3rd party market, so that every one is forced to over pay of a lesser sized card. Same thing with the hard drives. I can get a Seagate 500GB laptop drive that will work with the PS3 for $119 at Best Buy. Where as a 60GB 360 drive is $99 and a 120GB is still $149. Same type of drives but MS only gives you two types of drive. Where Sony is more up. I think Datel does have a right to open the market. " "That I'm glad Datel is doing this, like I said you can hack with a MS mem card and if you do MS has the right to suspend your account and/or ban your Xbox. They do not have the right to block competition" ___________________________________________________ anyway back to me, but regardless m$ has gotten sued time and again for being a monopoly because crushing small competitors is illegal, as is being a monopoly, they have done it before and they continue to do it and get penalized for it. " the willful acquisition or maintenance of that power as distinguished from growth or development as a consequence of a superior product, " IMO they violated that, and that's illegal
umm after reading what i said... that quote was somewhat out of context so just umm... well you get the basic idea of what im saying, right? well my main idea was that M$ is a bad trust and that's that.
You're missed the point a bit there. MS's reasoning behind the exclusion of the Datel memory card is that the device could be used to transfer game saves and data from a XBOX to a PC. The data migration cable can be used in the same fashion.
What Damox brought up is what I was aiming for. Also note that the Memory Card was developed not to trick the Xbox 360 into thinking it was a Memory Card by any hack it was a normal Memory Card with removeable storage. Microsoft locked the kernel to only use their signed Memory Cards. In other words Microsoft implemented a block that previously wasn't there so Datel wasn't "hacking" anything, this is Datels primary point in the law suit they locked out third party memory cards that weren't breaking any rules. The removeable media was used so you could upgrade the size of the memory card and backup your saves on the computer to free up more space and Microsoft's excuse was because it could be used to modify the console but Microsoft has been marketing their own products which as well can be used to modify the console. This is the major point Datel is bringing to court and are just for doing so in my opinion.
There has always been a lock on accessories on the 360 since the system launched. Microsoft uses authentication code to determine if an accessory is legit or not. There are workarounds (see the third party controller adapters for the 360 that require you to plug in an official controller to the adapter while using the one you want) however there is no direct way to create an accessory without either: 1) Getting the authentication code from Microsoft or 2) Hacking around the authenticaton code Datel choose to do the latter. It didn't just "make a memory card" it created a memory card with code that was used to trick the authentication system into thinking it was an official memory card. Legally what Datel did (depending on how it specifically implemented the hack) could very well be in the clear. Chances are it had a lawyer review previous case law before moving forward. The company had examples of a working hack nearly three years ago. It just released the Max Memory cards with the TF chip 6 months ago. Microsoft's laywers and legal teams likely looked at it as well and figured that updating the authentication system was easier than any sort of legal action. The most obvious case (Sega vs Accolade) would seem to imply that legally Datel was ok. Of course that doesn't preclude Microsoft from plugging the hole that Datel exploited. Ultimately, it doesn't matter what the tools *can* be used for. What matters is how they were implemented. Does the Xbox 360 have an authentication system? Yes Did Datel bypass that system? Yes Was it legal for Datel to bypass that system? Most likely, depending on how it was done Was it legal for Microsoft to update that system to prevent Datel's exploit? Most likely Chances are, the actions of both companies are completely legal as far as US law is concerned. -hl718
