DMS4 SE/pro PS2: how to run PS1 NTSC imports at 60hz via component?!

Hiya!

I have a very hardware specific question, is it possible to run on a PAL PS2 via component a ps1 ntsc game and have it displayed at 60hz?

Currently I use my DMS4 SE/pro PAL PS2 to play both ps2 and ps1 games since it saves space. I also have a framemeister and use it to upscale to my TV.
PS2 games work nice, either PAL or NTSC. PS1 games boot fine no matter their region but when displayed via component NTSC games run at 50hz. I noticed that when I try to play the CV:SOTN translation that is a NTSC/J game.





As you can see the source is recognized as a 50hz 288p one instead of 240p/60hz. Also notice how the picture moves positions while in menu or in-game...

I have these DMS4 settings regarding imports:



You will notice that "PSX Video Fix" is OFF. When this is ON I don't get any picture via component other than the PS1 boot logo. The screen turns blue and stays there while I can hear the game's sounds (not the blue "no input" framemeister screen).

Using an RGB scart cable works and the game does run at 241p/60hz (yes, 241).
Is there something on PAL PS2's that prevents correct behaviour when using a component connection?
TIA for any info!

 

Read here: http://www.assemblergames.com/forums/showthread.php?47632-Pal-Test-PS2-60hz-NTSC-ps1-help

 

Thanks for the link, I take it that your tool needs running before I boot a PS1 game?
Any idea why it happens on component output only? Is this a limitation between component output + ps1drv ?

 

Yes, before you boot an imported PlayStation game. It assumes that your game is an import, so do not invoke the tool before starting a local game.

No, sorry. The problem should be visible on all video output types actually.

On PlayStation 2 consoles up to the SCPH-75000, the PS1 driver is specifically coded for the console's region. It has a customized compatibility list and video mode parameters, which is why booting imported PlayStation games on a console will result in the behaviour you have observed:
1. For a NTSC game on a PAL set, the game will run at 50Hz and the screen will have letterboxing.
2. For a PAL game on an NTSC set, the game will run at 60Hz and be partially cut off.

On the SCPH-75000 and later, the PS1 driver is actually universal... but has been coded to assume that the game you boot belongs to your console's region. Therefore, these drivers only need to have the console's region spoofed to function correctly.

 

I see... well I get the 50hz-ntsc thing only with component, with RGB the NTSC/J game runs fine at 60hz and full screen, see this shot here , I just put the PS2 in RGB mode and booted the game:



My console is a PAL V9 with a BIOS version 0170 (according to DMS4 settings) and the PS2 reports it's a SCPH-50004 with a 1.11 PSDriver... maybe it's the modchip's patches?

 

It doesn't seem like your modchip's patching is working as well as it should... although somebody else will have to explain whether this is normal or not. Does using PS1VModeNeg with the modchip's "PSX video fix" setting turned off solve your problem?

 

don't really know what is going on, will try PS1VModeNeg and report back... as-is with whatever patching the DMS4 does:

with component output:
- ntsc is displayed as 288p/50hz with "PSX Video Fix OFF"
- with "PSX Video Fix ON" I don't get any picture but the game runs in the background

with RGB output:
-ntsc is displayed as 241p/60hz with "PSX Video Fix OFF" but needs centering
-ntsc is displayed as 241p/60hz with "PSX Video Fix ON" and is pretty much perfect

 

It's not PS2's fault but your TV setup can't handle 240p component input.
It seems it will go as low as 288p, that's why you get the picture in PAL mode but not in NTSC mode. It's also the reason why you get the boot logo as that is shown in NTSC 480i.
As sp193 already said, PS2 ignores videomodes set by PS1 software (except the framebuffer resolution) and instead it sets it to PS2's region.
Which makes sense as you are not supposed to play games from another region anyway without modding.
--
You can try some games like Vagrant Story which will show 640x480 title screen but not 320x240 gameplay.
Or Chrono Cross which again will show menus but not gameplay.

Others are lucky and their TVs can display 240p component image just fine.

 

^ the playstation output actually passes through a framemeister, the tv receives a 720p signal from HDMI , this is not a direct tv connection

 

May be unrelated but in system configuration of the pstwo (not the mod) what do you have the component video out set to?

If it's set to RGB then change it and try using the video fix with component then. I vaguely remember a similar issue years ago.

 

I have the setting correct, if using component cable I switch it and if RGB I change it to rgb... else you get wrong colors
TBH I don't really care now about this, with the framemeister the component connection is not really needed for HD tv sets... the rgb upscaling is just stellar now that the tv's upscaler is bypassed

 

Even with a good up scalar, one cannot deny that there will be video problems when an imported PlayStation game is started. I do not know why the video fix functionality of your mod chip appears to only fix the video output of RGB properly, but the same result should have been observed with component video output as well.

So this would be the answer to your original question: the video problem with imported games is normal because the PlayStation 2's PlayStation driver was coded with your console's default video mode in mind. So unless something modifies the PlayStation driver, it is perfectly normal.

It might be the mod chip not patching the PlayStation driver properly. One way to confirm this is to disable your modchip's built-in video fix and run PS1VModeNeg. This tool will modify the PlayStation driver to set up in the "opposite" video mode. If it still does not work, there is most likely a problem with your TV setup.

 

Stick 240p composite source into Y input and see if you get anything (image should be stable aka not rolling but black and white and with lines running).
If no, then Framemeister for some reason can't cope with 240p component input.
You can do the same with 480i composite which will probably show.

 

I think the mini is just more forgiving with the RGB input than with the component input regarding that weird 59.40hz refresh rate that you always get when trying to play NTSC PS1 games on a PAL PS2. It causes the signal to be recognized as 241p and also causes stuttering in games that have a lot of scrolling.

I was interested to see if SP193's app fixed this issues but unfortunately my PS2's drive is playing up at the moment.

 

^ ah, thanks for this post. Indeed it's 241p and 59.40hz is the reported refresh rate.
I tried with sp193's tool, ran it from uLaunchELF and it dumped me to the ps2 stock browser. Then fired up the NTSC/J game but it was still recognised as 241p...
I also tried with component, it did not help the issue with the framemeister.

edit:
I don't know if it will help but I have emailed micomsoft's support about the 241p/59.40hz issue. who knows, they might fix it

 

I wrote in the README file that you must insert your game before starting the tool. You might even need to give your console some time to detect the disc before starting the tool.

 

I missed that part...
on the RGB test the game was already inserted when uLaunchELF/tool was running, it still dumped me on the browser screen with the ps1 game already detected.
Will re-do the component test later

 

Try accessing the disc (going into cdfs:/ and then back out) with uLaunchELF first, before starting PS1VModeNeg. Your console had probably not detected the disc properly.

 

^ it works! In both component and rgb modes:





You have to launch ToxicOS then uLaunchELF and then PS1VModeNeg , unfortunately launching it through ToxicOS freezes the system on a black screen...
I wish there was some hardware mod to make this a permanent change... or at least it worked from ToxicOS

sp193 , when / if you find the time / can be bothered , may I suggest something for this apparently excellent tool you wrote?
I tried running it from the DMS4's flash , in Dev.olution mode where you press R2 during boot time and the ps2 executes a custom ELF. PS1VModeNeg runs but the disc does not have enough time to get recognised even if it is already in the drive when the ps2 powers on. You get dumped to the stock browser with the disc detected but the patch does not work from there.
Is it possible to add a screen (a simple text one with a simple "insert PS1 disc and press X to boot" message) that waits for a keypress so the user can insert a disc and when the button is pressed the disc gets accessed so the ps2 recognises it and then the ps1 patching/boot process begins?
It would really work like a launcher this way without depending on the disc being inserted/recognised before PS1Vmode is launched...
Does that make sense?

 

So it is a PS2 related issue after all. I stand corrected.
Glad you got it working.

Did you have to do any swapping (legit PS1 PAL game) or the chip took care of everything?
I'm asking because when I was testing PS1VModeNeg the only way I could run it was to kill the chip (disable it) and use a swap method. I have a slim SCPH-77004.