Dreamcast backup questions

As we all know it is possible to burn self booting dreamcast games and it has been able to be done for a while now. Here is my question tho, how does one take an image of a dreamcast game like a redump image which is just a 1:1 .gdi with audio tracks u
dreamcast dump and make it into a burnable self booting image? I see a lot of guides everywhere showing how to add disc juggler .cdi functionality to programs like imgburn and that's great but what's the most current and easiest way to make a nonbootable image a Bootable image?

 

Last time I've done this was following the Echelon's selfboot tutorial, however I remember this was done on a Windows 98 machine, couldn't get cdrecord to work in XP or an later OSes.
You would burn a small audio track first and then the data files.
The other option was data/data with another selfboot program but I don't even remember the name now.

 

I've been looking up ways to do this but like you were saying a small audio file on the disc I have a dump (from redump) for alone in the dark a new nightmare for example which already has 4 audio tracks and a single .gdi file .....do I still need to create an audio file for this?

P.s.
Was reading this run down here about the same method I think you are talking about:
http://dcemu.seanbajuice.com/help/selfboottutorial.htm

EDIT:
Stumbled across this thread here on assembler:
https://assemblergames.com/threads/convert-gdi-to-iso.64435/

 

From memory gdi is an actual dreamcast dump which further needs to be modified. Files need to be downsampled if they are over the 700MB limit. Would be easier to find an actual scene release

 

i use RDC and DCRES as they have 'Sort Order' which is better for your laser and faster loading times

 

Are these tools or a scene that made releases?

 

So how about running .gdi from hard drive?
Found one of these on ebay:
https://m.ebay.co.uk/itm/Dreamcast-...ipping-/122754184636?itemId=122754184636&du=1

 

they are scene/group made releases

 

I've made a few useful tools for that.

GDItools (https://sourceforge.net/projects/dcisotools/) to extract GDIs and their sorttxt.txt, soon to shrink them too if I can ever get around to do it.

A selfboot pack (https://assemblergames.com/threads/selfboot-45000lba-data-data-pack-v1-4-all-32bit-edition.41388/) to build selfboot CDI for 3-tracks Katana (non-wince) games. It's pretty much automated beside downsampling/game-specific quirks. Supports sorttxt.txt.

Binhack32 (https://sourceforge.net/projects/binhack32/) an opensource binhack clone that works on any modern OS/architecture. The original binhack is a DOS 16 bit binary.

 

Does playing .gdi files from an ide hard drive like that work very well? Last I checked loading dc images from the serial port or via dreamshell was kina dodgy......which makes me think a little more beyond why does one have to load threw dreamshell like that, can it be loaded for example threw the usb GDROM menu or the menu designed for GDEMU? As far as I can tell all 3 (usb gdrom, GDEMU, and this ide attachment) all attach to the gdrom pins/interface on the motherboard it's self.

 

GDEmu sports SD cards, USB-GDRom supports USB drives, and the G1-IDE mod supports IDE/CF cards.

GDEmu and the USB-GDRom work flawlessly for 99% of games. They are actually better than the optical drive, reducing loading times a lot.

They are expensive and hard to obtain though. GDMenu, the cute game list with disc images, is exclusive to GDEmu, but the USB-GDRom had a basic menu too.

The G1-IDE mod that's supported by DreamShell isn't quite as good as them in compatibility or performance, but it's steadily improving thanks to the work of SWAT and friends.

In the end, it all boils down to price, availability and functionality.

 

I've looked into getting a usb-gdrom they don't appear so hard to obtain from the devs website just double the price of the GDEMU. I wish there was an easier way to get my hands on a GDEMU or a more affordable way to get the USB-GDROM due to the compatibility of them being so well.

Now from a quick overview at the dc swat website it's been sometime since dreamshell has been updated as well 2-2-2016 with dreamshell 4.0

My question about the usb-gdrom mainly was because I was curious if the compatibility issues with dreamshell was cause by the actual os before launching a game using system resources. I know that the usb-GDEMU has an iso file for a simple a selection menu that is loaded upon start up, u just didn't know if it was possible for this menu to be loaded up on a disc in the gdrom for example in place of the dreamshell os.

 

The optical disc emulators and the G1-IDE mod don't work on the same principles at all. There are no straightforward way to transfer functionalities between them. Games on IDE wouldn't boot at all without DreamShell.

I personally think that GDEmu is the best option if you have the money and opportunity to get one.

 

Ya I'm watching the site there is going to be phobe and rhea production here soon as well....missed GDEmu orders by 5 days ago that were only open for 5 minutes until they were all sold sadly, I keep hoping he finds a way for mass production somehow but I don't see that happening as he has been making them himself for a year or 2 now.

Really wish I knew how to actually code something for the DC I'm rather curious how or if it would be possible to simply make an iso loader on disc no os or anything of the sort just something to initialize the ide drive and show the games on it....similar to hdloader for the ps2.

Idealy I think I would like to run both the ide mod and GDEMU, that way I could have mass storage for dreamshell compatible games and sd storage for the incompatible dreamshell games.....that's just my thoughts however

 

This is a bit far out there but something I thought about in my random ponderings while aimlessly thinking.

GDROM = special format of cd rom that holds up to 1 GB or so of data due to data being written closer togather.....not because it's a completely different disc format all together it's just in how the data is written and how the console reads the game from the disc.

XGD3 = xbox 360 disc format also 1 GB larger than a standard dual layer blank DVD (if I recall correctly) all 360 games have special wave checks and things like that tho they evolve over a time period XDG3 was one of the last evolutions of the 360 disc protections.

Now.....I know we are talking COMPLETELY different systems formats and all of that here.....however......it became possible to burn and copy XDG3 games using a couple of different methods to get the extra 1GB on the dual layer dvd. There was firmware you could flash to the chip of particular burners..... http://team-xecuter.com/forums/threads/73745-How-To-Update-and-Use-Liteon-iHAS*24-B-DVD-to-iXtreme-Burner-Max-FW-*Official-Guide* (lite-on iHAS if I recall) there was also a software method that worked with almost any burner (burner max payload tool? https://digiex.net/threads/burnermax-payload-tool-download-burn-xgd3-iso-xbox-360-games.15064/ )

My thoughts/question arises here.....if it was possible to come up with 1GB extra on a DL dvd.....is it possible to take somewhat of the same approach to come up with another 700MB on a cd to directly burn gdrom images to?

 

Yes and no. See this thread: https://assemblergames.com/threads/any-success-story-with-gigarec-for-dreamcast.45525/

Basically, a GD-ROM is a normal first session, followed by a special Saturn-style copy protection ring, and ending with a high density Gigarec-style hidden second session.

Even if you could somehow modify Gigarec to burn only a second session, the ring is still impossible to reproduce using blank media. You might be able to end up with a homemade GD-R, the recordable GD-ROM developers used, but it would still require an official boot disc (Sega System Disc 2, which is impossible, by design, to selfboot).

The Dreamcast can read Gigarec disc though but, as you can read in the thread linked earlier in this post, it can't be a selfboot and the boot discs have limitations that make Gigarec kind of moot.


Fun fact: Gigarec is a Plextor technology need on old Yamaha patents, and the GD-ROM format was designed by Yamaha.

 

So it's really an either or solution.....even if I could cram a 1GB gdrom image edited to self boot it would not be a self booting disc?

I'll read that link for more clarification......but I would think if I could fit everything onto a stretched 1gb cd rom self boot code and all it should work? I'm missing something apparently.... because we currently have self booting games with no saturn like security ring

 

Selfboot discs use a different method of noting than GD-ROMs. It's based on a security flaw introduced by the support for mil-cd, a kind of audio disc with extra content for Dreamcast.

One could argue that Sega could still be into hardware if not for the decision to support mil-cd.

 

I wonder what other kind of way piracy will happen if mil-cd support didn't exist. Maybe Saturn style modchips?

 

Probably, but it would've taken longer I guess, and with a Saturn-style modchip, that mimics the ring of a retail disc, you'd still need to put a disc with the structure of a GD-ROM, minus the ring, in the DC. And the bios refuses to boot a game with its main executable before a certain LBA, which is outside of 99min IIRC. Making games on CD-R, even with a modchip would have been complicated.

There could have been special boot discs made by datel and friends though, but then cdda support would've been hard to do.

Really, beside the mil-cd backdoor, the Dreamcast had great copy protection. But you know, single point of failure and stuff.