Germany considering violent games ban?

I realise this is a Newsround post (Children's BBC news show), but I have only just stumbled across this story. Can't read the German newspapers to get the authentic German view.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/cbbcnews/hi/newsid_8030000/newsid_8036800/8036852.stm

Query to German users I guess, but is the German parliament genuinely considering a total violent games ban? I also noted this at the bottom of the text (the grammer error is theirs and not mine), " If it happens other countries in the UK (sic) could consider it too." He clearly states in the video "...in Europe INCLUDING the UK..." I honestly cannot see this succeeding, but with large retailers pulling out there is clearly a change of opinion and public pressure.

I realise that the recent shootings and resulting deaths were horrific, but this is a pretty extreme reaction.

For one thing there is no real evidence to suggest that violent games are directly or indirectly linked to these incidents. Surely banning violent video games & DVDs is unlikely to make any difference just as playing hyper fast Sonic titles doesn't have me rushing out to buy a blue suit and rolling around the garden, stamping on evil looking animals and stealing gold rings. Have they never heard of escapism? Suspension of reality?

People tend to play games because they don't have the ability to achieve the same results in reality. A small fraction of people are always going to blur whatever they do in life with fiction. Mark Chapman was allegedly influenced by 'Catcher in the Rye' to kill John Lennon, but when I read it, I just read a book! So what happens, the book was banned as if it were lethal and had some kind of ability to warp you into murderous deeds.

What of the multitude of albums with subliminal messages etched into the tracks (either backwards or forwards), that instead of being seen as a bit of a joke were taken seriously? This is the same nonsense.

Also, it's not the games that kill people it's the weaponry used by a tiny fraction of the population (and we are talking about a very, very, very small number of people here) that causes the damage.

Looking at it a different way, a large number of people are killed throughout Europe yearly because of drink drivers. The solution is not to ban alcohol (as the American experience in the 1920's is evidence of), but to make drink driving illegal, police properly, have targeted campaigns and zero tolerance legislation. Plus on top, perhaps introduce stiffer sentences for both the person causing the accident and those selling alcohol to someone clearly attempting to use a vehicle.

How is this being played out in Germany and does it really look like this draconian legislation will succeed? The specter of Jack T is looming over Europe!

Apparently school shootings were not frequent before the 1990's, but one notorious shooting immortalized by The Boomtown Rats song 'I don't like Mondays' occurred in December 1979 (San Diego). Not wishing to make light of it, but it does kind of prove that it was a sick new youth crime born of social ills, alienation and the availability of weaponry and not caused by increased exposure to violence from video games. What could have influenced Brenda Spencer?

http://www.dailyhistory.net/january-29-1979-school-shooting-in-san-diego-i-dont-like-mondays/

Why are the authorities so keen to pin the blame on video games and not consider the alternatives?

 

It is just the SOP for politicians the world over. It is always easier to quickly pass "feel good" legislation to look like you are doing something than to actually take the time to tackle the roots of the problem. Voters after all have short attention spans so politicians have to act fast if they are going to leech onto a tragedy for publicity.

Remember folks... "Think of the Children."

 

We've talked about gun crime, violence and the like on AG before, but this is legislation that really does look like it might be taking hold. Sigh! Here was me thinking with Jack T out of the picture the World would sober up and stop pointing the blame at video games.

The problem isn't the games per se, so much as dumb shit parents allowing their darling, underage children to gain access to titles inappropriate for them and like Brenda Spencer's father, perhaps encouraging them to use weapons despite tell tale signs. If your daughter was in trouble for shooting at school windows with a BB gun, wake up, don't give her a rifle for Christmas!

It's a complex issue to be sure, but banning games of this nature, which is very highly regulated in the first place for 10s of millions of gaming enthusiasts because of the extreme reactions of a very tiny fraction of the World's population is nuts.

If I was the parent of one of the victims I would be looking to what was running through the mind of the killer, what sort of upbringing, medical / emotional health, what sort of issues they'd faced and whether they were being abused either at home or outside it in some way. My first thought would not be 'Are they video games fans'.

Second thought would be 'where in God's name did they obtain the damned guns and knives?'

It's the usual political absurdity of pointing in totally the wrong direction. Germany should have a guns and knives amnesty, have stricter gun laws and hunt the black market guys down, but that's slightly harder and as you say politicians often want to be seen to have achieved something rather than actually done any good!

Introduce the ban, another incident occurs and what do you ban or blame next?

My son and his mate often play at 'soldiers' in the back garden. My wife hates anything like that and he's not allowed a toy gun. So, he and his mate are inventive and make Lego (multi color) bazookas and rifles. They shoot at one another and fall about the garden making all sorts of 'Arrrrgh' and 'OOOOOO' noises. It's actually proved impossible to curb our sons interest. He isn't violent, he doesn't strangle the cat or want to slash our throats with his plastic knife at dinner time.

But it proved to my wife and me that simply banning something outright in the home has no real effect. Imaginary play is not the problem, it's access to the real thing in lax, uncontrolled ways, in the hands of disturbed, alienated and ill people that becomes the issue.

I'd personally much prefer that someone with a borderline unhealthy interest in guns staved off their lust on an Xbox 360 than ironically felt it was easier to purchase a gun than a game! These people seem to think that gaming is some kind of training ground, but as anyone who actually games knows, the reason you play games is it is as far removed from reality as you can be and have a laugh! Not one of us has the actual balls to stand before a 10 foot alien and tackle it with a hand gun and a combat knife, or jump behind the wheel of a Ferrari and actually make it to the end of the track without causing serious damage!

 

This issue of a general "violent games ban" is being discussed since 2002 when Robert Steinhäuser celebrated his killing spree in Erfurt. Several conservative TV stations have produced very strange "reports" where games appeared in an incredibly bad light (i.e. showing actors (apparently) stating comments like "GTA... actually everybody is only playing to exercise some pointless violence. Killing a few innocents, explosions, that's what its about basically". Bad journalism, trying to influence the viewer that lacks the necessary knowledge about the subject. Dumb shit and continued.

Anyway, as for the current situation I don't think it is that acute. There are about 3 or 4 politicians in Germany who really want to see "violent video games" banned. FPS are generally called "Killergames" in the media, although nobody ever really cared to define that expression - I mean, you even "kill" in Mario games. One of the guys, however, is a professor (Prof. Dr. Pfeiffer) spouting out all kinds of dubious studies in order to proof to what state of badassness our youth has become. Studies that every 5th is racist, every 5th is addicted to games, every 5th has had heavy drug experience. He is the first to be consulted by any critic who wants to proof the negative influence of games.
The current calls for a ban come mostly from the CSU, the even more conservative version of the CDU who is currently governing the country together with its social working party counterpart. Now to understand the extreme actionism certain politicians from the CSU are exerting, you have to know that this party lost a lot of support over the last year or so. Their audience is to a majority consisting of aged Bavarians and thus they actually run out of voters. Now there's this CSU woman who sees it as part of her election campaign to claim that World of Warcraft is addictive (fact) and should be rated again and maybe only suitable for people 18 and older.

Thus far nothing game-related is concrete. People who request bans are mostly from conversative parties and in addition also try to collect votes (Europe election 7th of June, later on the big election in September).

There was a comment written by the office for media & press a couple of days ago. They answer user-questions embodying Merkel/the government. Now he asked how bans could be possible considering the laws about media consumption/liberty. The answer was pretty clear, games are not seen as reason for events such as the one in Winnenden - there are deeper psychologic processes involved (how right they are). A ban was possible to put though if it was really necessary, but as their answer was in vast contrast with the requests of dumb conservative party members from Bavaria, I don't there's such a great chance.

"The video is not available in your territory"

They look for easy explanations after all. There are quite some psychologists who say exactly the same and are strictly against a ban of World of Warcraft ("a social network so structured and familial, the family minister would love to see something like that - if she would just take a look instead of adjudging it"). The problem is just that very few of these comments come from someone in the government.

Games aside, the laws for guns are always being discussed after a killing spree. But it's not as popular... after all shooting clubs are mainly consisting out of elderly people. People who vote. People who are of conversative orientation. Now if the biggest critic of violent games, the conservative CSU, would go as far as condemning their own voters in shooting clubs on the countryside, what would that look like? Like a badass sellout!
Weapon laws are being tightened anyway though. After Erfurt of course and now people who own weapons can prepare to reckon with unannounced visits of the police who just wants to check that everything is ok regarding storage of weapons ect. This is not definitive yet, but they are working on it (german article reference).

Furthermore they now want to ban Paintball and Laserdome as these are "simulations of killing". Granted. But I never heard of a paintball-player who ran amok? I don't think any of the school-killers played one of these games either. They were in a shooting club, that's what they all had in common... and they had access to their weapons at home. They shot people with these weapons, not with paintball guns or PS2 controllers. Just after the rampage of Winnenden in March some voices wanted the weapons to be stored in shooting club houses all the time in lockers so that there is no access to weapons at home whatsoever. That's something practiced at the army for ages now.
This proposal however was rapidly hushed up. A Paintball-ban is obviously more necessary... and never forget that there are more shooting club members who vote than paintball fans. Banning a "killing simulation" is very good for the party's reputation.

 

Ave, that was a brilliant, insightful and exceptionally clear post on the German situation - many thanks!

Prof. Dr. Pfeiffer "What's the worst that could happen?" (Made me laugh a bit - hope you have the same advert for Dr. Pepper in Germany or that remark might look really weird!)

I can understand the political meandering, electioneering and point scoring. Exactly the same thing has happened on similar issues (notably Fox Hunting) in the UK.

We have incredibly strict gun laws. To the point that a number of people have been fatally shot in the UK by SWAT teams responding to erroneous public calls relating to false allegations of someone carrying a gun in public.

World of Warcraft IS addictive, but so is chocolate! Where will these people end?

With elections looming all sorts of 'popular' measures and quick-fix solutions are implemented in order to get voters 'on-side', which is probably why you are seeing such enthusiastic & ignorant rambling on why violent games & paint balling / laser tag should be banned post haste!

Hopefully commonsense shall prevail.

As for the BBC video not being available in Germany, that sucks! All it shows it the presenter suggesting that Germany is discussing introducing measures to ban violent games after the recent shooting in March at a school. It then interviews a group of German students (it must be admitted I thought they were way too young to be getting their hands on the types of games they are planning on banning), and their reaction to proposed ban.

The reporter states that one of the main retailers in German has already stopped stocking violent DVDs and games, over 18 titles - that kind of thing.

Then the last comment is that if successful the ban may be implemented in other E.U. countries such as the UK. Just by whom and how is not explained. It's not like German policy makers have much influence in the U.K. - sadly, in relation to economic situation lol.

Great reply though! Cheers Ave!

 

Like ave says, i dont think its acute. The politicans want to take this up for her electoral. The Industry in Germany Suffering it out.
Another part of this insane politic is you can get all the Games form outside Germany very easy and under 18. For my part I order all my stuff (over and under 18) from UK. With PS3 for example you have German speek and subtitle.
Most of German people i know order it over Amazon.co.uk or ebay.uk too.
We have German sites where you get the latest infos over prices of Games from Amazon.co.uk . Politican want to stop selling in Germany, its so stupid.
When they want to stop it, they musst close Europe ;-).
Last time Amazon.co.uk stop the shipping of "KillerGames" to Germany. After two weeks they recaptured it... So i dont think it comes again. To much money behind that.
But its bad for the German Sellers, and of corse for manufacturers like Crytek :crying:.
But so far, i like UK :thumbsup:

 

Wouldn't the EU have something to say about this? Or does the legislation not go that far?

Good post btw Ave

 

No way its only an "German" problem . Look on Austria or Swiss ... OH:

 

Shouldn't this be in Gaming?

 

There also banning Paintball and Laser tag shooting games.

 

next thing you know they ll ban sex with highschool girls.

 

Germany is really going down the drain.

Sounds like an X-File but our media more and more manipulates people in having fear of everything. The only possible way out of all this threats is to control people - says our government.

 

That's right, and incidentially for you all to have a laugh. Germany has just got trough an internet block, supposely only pedophile stuff but ya, what cloudet mind believes that. Anyway, when you come up on such a site you'll see a STOP sign, childish isnt it? What isnt completly decidet is whatever or not you will be lawfully persucuted for ending up there in the first place. One side of the debate says, "Casual" people wouldnt even land there in the first place, which is bullshit. Accidents happen, its the internet and people try the damnest things to pull one up their site, and google spits out enough shady websites.

It's just stupid.

Edit: Oh by the way, i've always thought Germany started going on route to city17. As in, what city17 was for the general puplic that lived there. Constant surveillance, and everything is forbidden. Just work, mindless puppet! Soon you will be assimilated.

Edit2: lol.

 

There is an official petition going on against the childporn block and more than 60,000 people signed already. Politicians are already claiming their shithead populistic opinions on this ("I can't believe somebody is against a ban of child porn!").

On the other hand this won't prevent a SINGLE CHILD to get abused. Child porn is, after all, to a huge majority, not available on paysites that say "here look, a 9-yr old raped and humiliated by some retired truck drivers, get us a 49$ monthly flatrate fee and you can pervert your ass off". According to an interview with a lawyer who is specialized on pedophile clients (defending them, actually) stated that most child porn is either very old (I guess he was talking about Color Climax / other scandinavian productions from the late 60s up to late 70s) or homevideo stuff, distributed in forums and chats. Pedophiles are trading their stuff by either sending it on the internet (IRC;1-click-hosters;ect I suppose) or manually selling/trading DVDs with material and sending it by DHL or whatever.

And now our fucking family minister comes along and wants to put a populistic "stop sign" somewhere on the net, stating that the "child porn industry will have lower income due to a decreased amount of customers and thus, less abuse of children". Well a shit will happen. Who of those assholes raping their own children in a celler will stop doing that because of that.. that joke of a measure? Nobody talks about switching off servers.
It's just about pulling down a curtain to not have to see the problem, or, as the opposition is putting it: Making possible new dimensions in censorship.

Immediately after this was decided, people from the music industry welcomed this step and suggested to subsequently ban illegal download sites as well.

Up to now, the internet was (in this part of the world) a place of anarchy and freedom. To be honest, I think that is something we can tell our grand-children about but they won't experience it any more.

 

Errr.... lol OH:

 

Hillarious, you put it well ave, it is indeed a curtain pulled down. Reminds me about north korea. Dosnt the south block stuff too? hmm.

Our politics are as naive and shallow as it gets. All it is about is making the puplic think that something has happend, or changed. But the reality is, over here, you are just forbidden to see such things exist, and if you do, that they are the devil in itself. I couldnt even express how much i'd like to get out of here, while still possible *cough*.

 

Well, we're not in North Korea yet :lol:
Let's not forget there are elections ahead of us and bans (games) will probably still need to go a long way untill they are realized, if even. Every nation has its deficits and in the end I don't think it is so bad to live here... good politicians are really hard to find, I mean just look at George Bush... or Italia's Berlusconi. We have Merkel in charge, who is not the worst choice if you ask me. At least much more capable than Schröder.

What gets me is that those who want to climb up the ladder (like our family minister) only achieve that by deciding things, like opening doors to new dimensions of surveillance, that can't be reverse so easily.

 

my experiences:

I wanted to import biohazard 2 and biohazard 3 for the pc for my collection
the customs rejected to hand this out to me because the games were banned
they said theyd investigate the case (that was in february btw)

same thing happened in march when i wanted to import biohazard 5 for the PS3,that women at the customs was like "you again and this game again?no way we re giving you this!"

i dont get my games because of suspicion based on another suspicion which hasnt been proven until now
(while I still know that i am allowed to get the games)

these horror shootings took place in winnenden which is like 50km away from here and HERE is Heilbronn (check for the Phantom of Heilbronn)

strict video game laws?ive lived here for over 15 years now and I can clearly say that this has nothing to do with the video games but with german society here full of egomaniacs and megalomaniacs,try to ban that lol

anyway
DU BIST DEUTSCHLAND!

 

LOL! I havent heard that in ages. Cant say I really wanted to see that again ;-)

Ah that was a good laugh, pity I have the commerical burned into my memory banks.