HDMI Output on a Nintendo 64

This is something weird, but I really want to do it. Notice how when you load up a ROM on an emulator, and have the graphics set to your resolution it's crystal clear? The Nintendo 64 ROMs are capable of displaying in semi-high definition but when plugged into a HDTV become blurred and overlapped, making it very difficult to play and enjoy.

That is why I am setting out to create a Nintendo 64 with a HDMI output, or at least a component output. I can't find anything on the topic, and unfortunately HDMI is not something I'm overly familiar with, especially in the way of consoles. But I'm willing to learn about it, read books, and put a lot of effort into doing this. I want a Nintendo 64 that has the nostalgia and authenticity of the console, with a beautiful output to the near-standard of today's TV's.

Obviously I'm going to need to buy a few parts, and get soldering. I'll probably be at the workbench for days. It will be worth it though.
First things first though, have you ever heard of this being done or do any of you have an idea on where or how I could start on doing this?

Post your ideas and responses to this thread.

 

You are still limited to the original output resolution of the n64. It isn't suddenly going to become high resolution. It will always be blurry when it is being scaled. That said, the best way to get component will be through RGB -> Component conversion. Itll be the highest quality video possible (next to actual RGB of course), but it won't work miracles.

 

Borman's right. The fact an emulator can do something doesn't mean the console can.

When emulators display (2d or 3d games) in higher resolution than real hardware, they're not emulating perfectly the hardware. They're applying filters/rasterizing geometry to native resolution instead of behaving exactly as the real video chip.

 

Hmm, you guys are right.

So at the end of the day, is there any possible modification or scenario that could rewrite how the Nintendo 64 displays its content in high definition?
Even if it involves some heavy hardware replacement and circuitry wiring?

 

The games are still programmed at 640x480. If you force the 64 into higher res it may drop a lot of frames, the system already drops frames at 640x480.

 

1. shove computer into n64 shell
2. install retrode in cart slot
3. ????
4. profit

 

1)Buy RGB modded N64.
2)Buy RGB upscaler/transcoder
3)Enjoy your N64 not looking like complete crap because you're using composite on a 42" 1080p display

The N64 will never render in anything higher than 640x480 unless someone codes up some homebrew and builds a larger RAM expansion pak. Even then other games will remain in their current resolution. The best you can do (short of emulators) is to have it look as much as possible to the original picture on modern displays.

I'd offer to sell you a RGB modded n64 but you'd have to either swap a chip out so it'll play PAL titles or start splurging on NTSC N64 carts.

 

wouldn't it be easier to get one of those Nintendo VGA box/cable and hook it up to VGA->HDMI converter?

 

Because any old fart can do that. I like wiring all my consoles to be on steroids.
Plus it makes me feel smart.

Anyway, I'm not familiar with HDMI or Nintendo 64 hardware.
Currently APE is making the most sense to me, so I might do what they were suggesting but actually integrate it inside the system rather than "Plug 'n' Play" on the outside.

 

It happens.

You could potentially do that as there is quite a bit of room inside a N64. You'd have to respect the heatsink inside and you'd need to install discrete connectors on the back/side of the case but I don't see why you couldn't put something inside and leave the original connector be usable.

 

This would kinda do it you know.

Install a really small pc (atom or something) able to play n64 games in 1080p inside a n64 and add a n64cart adapter (retrode, or use roms) and usb n64pads. If made well this is the closer you could get to a "HD N64". Unless the Big N release a HD N64 console.

 

Hmm... I almost want to say there's more to this than simply installing an obscene amount of ram and playing with the VI settings. After all, just because you tell a computer's graphics card to output at some crazy resolution doesn't mean it's supported by the driver much less the hardware.
Larger video places more strain on the RCP. A fair amount of the frameskipping at higher resolution is due to more things requiring rendering in order to generate the video, wider field of vision and all. That wouldn't be an issue with a sprite-based game, for instance, unless they were coded like crap. It can also be alleviated by better preprocessing or selection methods.

I'd imagine eventually you'd run into a situation though where either the RCP can't generate the video or that the retrace lengths become so long you wind up with a funky signal. It would be an interesting experiment to find out what the hardware limitations are, effectively just trying increasingly larger resolutions until you run out of RAM or it dies a death most painful.
That said you can get it to output in all sorts of crazy modes.

 

Thanks so much for your contribution everyone. I've got some really good ideas. I'm going to purchase two N64's right now for this job and try both APE and derekb's suggestions. It might take me a while but it would be interesting to find a halfway point where I'm displaying games near 720p or something.
Again I'm not really familiar with this, so it will be a learning process however I'll take photos along the way and report what happens. Experimentation sounds appropriate.

If one of you PM me providing you have interest in this, perhaps we can do some research together or try and do the same thing. If I find a way to successfully increase the resolution without a loss of quality even if it means completely replacing the meat of the system, I'll post it out to you to have a play with and we can possibly release a custom modchip that can do this, providing people are willing to open up their systems and replace certain bits.

I'm more than happy to start developing this, even though it sounds very difficult I think that with some tweaking it could actually be very realistic to provide component display or HDMI. It just means I'll have to give the system a bit more juice and replace certain parts.

 

No, most games are lower than that: about 320x240. Only a handful of games display at 480i.

 

increasing the resolution will not increase the quality. But there is still way for improvement on a Nintendo 64 besides RGB. RGB is still analog and it is possible to get digital output from N64 motherboard. if you have the knowledge you can do whatever you want with this digital output (HDMI or anything else, though you have to upconvert the video to at least 640 x 480 for compatibility with HDMI)

you can tap the digital output from RCP. The links below explain how to convert this digital signal to analog signal. if you know how to transfer this digital output to a meaningful hdmi signal (without digital-analog conversion), you will have the best signal ever (better than RGB). But this is very hard to do. and nearly the exact same procedure can be used for gamecube too for an HDMI out.

http://nfggames.com/forum2/index.php?topic=2563.0
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/n64rgb/assembly.html

But if i were you i would just get a RGB modded N64. it gives a great picture on my 55" led tv.

 

Hi,

I was playing around with HDMI on N64 a few years back (around May 2009)...

I managed to get an FPGA to decode the N64's digital format (thanks to Tim for his original RGB DAC code / project)...
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/n64rgb/n64rgb.html

EDIT: Yes, @reprep, that's the guy. lol (I was still typing when you posted)
You're right though, if you just want an improved image, a good RGB modded N64 is much better than S-Video, and SOOOO much better than compoSHITE.
Actually, I never tried using the Gamecube RGB cable DAC, I must do that soon.

I then output the image via SCART (still standard 15KHZ RGB) using some sigma-delta DAC code.
This means you can use a single output pin for each colour (ie. you don't need a separate DAC chip, just a small FPGA board, a VGA socket, and a few resistors / caps!).

This was on a PAL (UK) N64, which of course doesn't have an RGB DAC normally, so it was nice to see.

The sigma-delta DACs require very high clock speeds for video, so I just used the clock from the N64's RAMBUS clock PLL chip.
You then just need a simple resistor / capacitor low-pass filter on each pin. The image was quite nice, and better than my RGB "modded" US N64.

A while later, Marshall also built his N64-VGA adapter...
http://forums.benheck.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=43034

I think I have most of the code for converting to HDMI as well, but as always, my problem is getting a PCB made cheaply.
(I never got my HDMI output working because I didn't have a proper PCB and was trying to hook up the N64 / FPGA to an undocumented HDMI chip on a cheap DVD / DivX player).

Also, I've been using Cadsoft Eagle for many years, and it's autorouter SUCKS! I don't like the sound of manually routing a board either, it would take forever.
If anyone has some PCB layout experience, I think we could put together a converter board which will output VGA and HDMI.

I've often wondered about higher resolution modes on the N64 as well...
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like the N64 VI will support progressive video. :sorrow: (AFAIK, but I'm no expert programmer)
But, it should be possible to output higher-resolution interlaced modes (like Indy Jones: Infernal Machine does).

So, like on Marshall's board, it's necessary to implement some sort of scan converter in the FPGA to convert the image to progressive VGA.

(One day, I'd still love to mess with stereo-3D on an N64, but that's a whole other project. lol)

I also added an OSD module to the code, which can overlay any text you want onto the output image...



OzOnE.

 

that's really impressive work OzOnE. i really like N64 and i am enjoying it with an Everdrive 64 with RGB mod. The dream N64 for me would be an N64 with native HDMI output both for digital video and audio.

i had a look for EDID and i noticed HDMI has support for 240p along with 480i. i am pretty sure my TV supports 480i over hdmi but i do not know about 240p. it would be great if such a thing could be implemented.

about VGA, it would be great for non-europeans as scart is a rarity there. But it won't put a better picture than a RGB modded N64, unless you use a better DAC.

 

When I get to University tomorrow, I'll talk to them about this. I don't get into my electricians course for components and circuitry until next year.
I'd like to say that what you guys are talking about doesn't sound like gibberish to me, but this might be way harder than I thought. I'm going to be doing a LOT of reading on this in the next few days. Can you guys recommend me some really basic PDF's or something that I can read on about the things you're discussing.
It sounds so interesting, and it's right up my alley, but I just don't know how it works. Video is a completely new concept to me, especially with N64's.

I've got my N64 right next to me and I'll be studying the circuitry whilst I read.

 

CRT TV or LCD? Because you know even if your LCD can display 30x2, it still stretches it to the native resolution of the display?

I saved 3 commodore monitors (1902, 1080, 1084), because no matter what you do, old systems look crappy on a 1080p TV. Even my Wii games look crappy on the LCD. They look and play great on my CRT monitors though. Too bad we are talking 13" vs 40" though....

One thought I had was to make an HDMI adaptor that centered the game in the screen and put black borders around it. No stretching, or at worse, x2 resize, keep aspect ratio of course. Not sure how easy/hard that would be to make.

 

yup it of course blows the resolution to 1080p (native resolution of TV). when i choose 4:3 mode on my TV, it doesn't look bad with old consoles (N64 and SNES especially) when RGB is used.

i also have a sony trinitron with RGB input at about 22". it looks good too but playing my old consoles on my 55" LCD with my 5.1 HT attached is great. also some old games have dolby surround which decodes beautifully to 5.1.

so i generally prefer my HDTV but each to his own.