According to my 3D Teacher, buying a SDK System is illegal is apparently SONY, M$, Nintendo's property. Even say a N64 SDK, is also Nintendo's property and not for a user to buy. I even raised the argument of Nintendo was selling a SDK for $5,000. He still says it's illegal. Apparently, when he was working at Codemasters, Dev units were stolen, and sold. They nearly lost their dev license. "These units are only for leases" he says. Could anybody clear this up for me, he seemed 100% about this.
No if licensed, No if they no longer exist, no if you bought it as scrap. Yes if it's loaned and not sold.
Wait, I thought all game developers had to buy their development systems after being licensed to build games for x console. Why would they loan out systems? That could practically destroy the business if x company wanted their dev consoles back... well like CodeMasters as you mentioned. And why would x company pull the dev license from the developer because little thieves got in a stole them. That's like a Judge ruling the house owner is guilty because of a break-and-enter. If Nintendo had consoles stolen from their HQ would they de-license themselves? Of course not.
It's a complicated mater but 1st party studios are clamping down more on dev hardware. Technically you buy the hardware but if you ever give up development for that system or move on, you're suppose to ship the hardware back to first party as you don't have full ownership to it. Just wait till the next gen of dev hardware, restrictions are getting pretty rough.
I didn't think they were, my teacher seemed very sure that SONY could knock on my door and request their PS2-DEV back if I ever bought one. Also, I believed his argument was invalid, of course if something is stolen, and sold it's always illegal to do so. How this talk came about is I was telling my friend I'm thinking of getting a PS2-DEV for my collection. I just mentioned I could be buying it from a ex-developer. So, say if a user buys a Wii SDK from Nintendo directly, they still don't have full ownership of it, that you've paid in full for? That's how I'm understanding it...
So it's technically renting then. Soon enough they will require a full time representative to watch over the dev hardware while a developer has one. Lol this reminds me of the DRM issue. Earlier on games had no protection or next to no protection on them. Things moved on developers saw DRM as a way to maximize $$$ and now almost everything requires activation, serials and more anoying things. However soon enough it'll hit a tipping point. Infact DRM-free is now a major selling point some companies use. And as time goes more people will jump on the bandwagon of DRM-Free and then it'll start all over again. It's a looping process. Actually most technology is that way....
Nintendo development hardware devices all seem to have a sticker saying "Confidential Property of Nintendo - Resale Prohibited" on them. But I have yet to hear about a case where licensed developers have to ship back the hardware they ordered.
That, is fine.. if it's labelled or hired I can understand. However, if a system is like a PS2TOOL, and a ex-dev sells it, is it still illegal?
they lease you the dev hardware and software, ie grant you a limited time license. It is revoked when contractual conditions are met and they should revert back to their original owner.
They could but they wont. They're less occupied with tracking down old hardware and more worried about new hardware and leaving doors open for hackers to circumvent hw piracy protection. Worse case is they could send you a letter requesting it back if they found you have it, or if you try to ebay it get your auction pulled. But they won't come knocking down your door with the police to get it back. I know it's not a part of your argument but fat chance getting nintendo to sell you an SDK. =P When you buy the hardware from first party there is a lot of legal shit that goes on in the background that isn't available for public viewing. You technically are licensing the hardware but you're free to keep it as long as you see fit. The only times a 1st party would request stuff back is a) it's a prototype, b) you where sent a replacement upgrade, c) you've ended your license agreement (to make software for their system) or d) you're company has been found to be doing illegal things with said hardware (IE buying up units to sell on the black market, or using said hardware to break their hw/sw copy protection). Just an fyi, but people have been sent letters from MS when found to be selling 360 dev kits on ebay. They would get a letter telling them they are not allowed to sell the kits and must return them back to Microsoft. So 1st party asking for hw back is not uncommon. -edit- It's worth mentioning that I do happen to work in game development, so I've had some first had experience with this stuff.
not illegal if the company has gone under mate, as Microsoft, Nintendo etc. would know this and would be able to legally request hardware back (possibly have to pay a fee if the company has gone under tho to whichever bank etc. deals with it) under an agreement but they dont as its not worth the time and the legal hassles they would go through
At the Acclaim sale MS were notified and people were sent to pick up the Kit's or they would be sold. When companies go under sometimes they are sold in auctions (I think it becomes Legal at this point). Sometimes MS ask for companies arrange for them to be destroyed, at this point they are sent to China and either A. Get destroyed or B. some dodgy Chinese person puts it up as being destroyed and takes it home to sell it. It's very much a grey area.
Just another case of "I'm the teacher. I have an opinion on a topic that is extremely multifaceted that boils it down to a black/white reality. Since I'm the teacher I'm going to spew it and ignore anything that students have to say because they're students". I've seen that crap so often it caused me to stop asking questions in college courses. On top of that it seems your teacher suggests "illegal" as "your ass is going to jail". There is a MASSIVE difference in the American justice system between civil offenses (libel, breaching contracts, OJ Simpson's bit fat fine) and criminal (you gonna get raped). Not returning a dev kit as per contract is not criminal no matter how much Nintendo might want to say it is "theft". Now if I walk into Bungie, grab an XDK off a desk and walk out you better believe that is a criminal offense.
Ive talked to professors about this as well. At worst, you would have to return the kit, but a difficult part is that Nintendo would likely first have to prove breach of contract and confirm that it was stolen, then they could take the hardware, potentially anyway. Theres the issue of the fact that you havent actually broken any contract or anything of that nature, so that aspect of it wouldnt matter to you really.
It's pretty amazing how he seemed to sure that even a N64 Dev-kit was illegal. I didn't believe him anyway. He just butted into my conversation with my friend, "OH DEV KITS ARE ILLEGAL!!!" Without actually listening to which one I was going to buy or look for.OH: Thanks for all the feedback! I'm going to tell him the right information when I'm in class next.
Be prepared for his answer to be "well random people on the internet saying so does not make it so. What the hell do they know when I use to work in the industry." yada yada yada. =P
Haha, yeah I can see that happening... Cause a teacher is always right :/ I've proved him wrong many times before It's ok, his no programmer..Cause he MEL Scripts randomly, thinks he knows everything about it
What's more important is that you know you'r right, not telling him that, get to know him. if he worked for codemasters in the past, he may come in handy in the future, and have some cools stories. Could turn out to be a better resource for information on codemasters, than a teacher! Plus you never know what he's got laying round in cupboards at home.
