Kickstarter - USB hub for every console controller

ulao, your product looks great.

Just keep in mind you are in a pretty hardcore section of the internet when it comes to gaming stuff. I know you're not familiar with assemblergames, but when it comes to gaming stuff, this forum is basically the ultimate nitpick forum of gaming. In all honestly a good amount of people here take more pleasure in finding out undiscovered information and having a complete technical understanding of something related rather then actually playing videogames casually with friends (Which I'm assuming is your target demographic).

You've done great stopping by here and answering peoples questions, but a lot of people here are going to continue hounding you down for the features that your product doesn't support and give you unsolicited advice on your product to make it "better" when in reality you honestly are already doing a great job. I'd say save yourself the headache and don't put to much focus on this forum because in all honestly, anyone here this is going to buy your product already has, and anyone giving you "advice" isn't a potential customer.

 

You do realise it's down to the donator's choice to support or not to support. If I find the product not suitable I wouldn't give you any of my money.

 

I completely disagree with this. Why wouldn't you want the "ultimate nitpick forum of gaming" analyzing your video game related product? Wouldn't you want users that strive to "have a complete technical understanding" help better define and solidify the technical aspects of your product? If disregarding this community's output "saves a headache," then another headache might very well arise that could have been avoided by utilizing this free resource.

Take it for what it is: free help. Whether you are bettered or not by the advice found here, what's the point in ignoring it? Write it off as a type of research. Also unless someone calls you something blatantly offensive or is libelous about your product, a blunt response may as well be the cost of receiving free help and advice.

 

Post #2 (From me, if you hadn't noticed)

Post #3

post #6

Chill out, people like your product. No need to get so defensive about it.

 

MBMM, I kinda mentioned that. I'd welcome any feedback good/bat but most if this feedback is already answered on the KS. It's just failure to read is all. Normally this is understandable as well but adding the harsh tone? I mean, fault me because you missed something?

We supported a pass-thru on that with Bliss-Box, it was just a USB pass-thru. You still had to use the XMCD drivers. although making a USB host is an option, it comes back to that code space. Adding enough code to read a USB protocol is pretty heave. The HDMI interface on the 4-play does not have access to the USB lines, so it was not an option. You can get xbox to usb cables on line for very cheap anyways. The idea of supporting USB with a USB device is just not all that feasible.

 

For sure, no biggie as I said, the Xbox 360 was superior in my mind (and in fact I even like the Xbox One better than the 360 but no wifi support). Still a great product and I'll have to plop down some cash for it! Assuming your KickStarter is successful whats your next step towards marketing it? Will you be stocking this at somewhere like StoneAgeGamers?

 

Yeah I have to agree on that one, the 360 is an amazing controller. I don't much like it for old games but PC gaming it is really nice. Though IMO that old one is bulky and heavy. In my day we tossed controllers across the room when we lost games, that could put some one in the hospital with that monster. I though there was a 360 BT driver?

Lots of sites have contacted me already, so needless to say that won't be an issue. The factory thinks the China market would be a wise move. Bottom line is the minimum order. I must hit 5000 units or no deal. Awareness is key in this and the next step I think is to grab another market. Maybe KS the zapper gun adapter or single play. Both cost very little to mass produce so I think I can go less on MQO. As always the community will decide.

 

Fixed that for you!

@ulao, people are simply critical. This is not the average videogame forum and some people are highly qualified and so they're critical. Most of the perceived rudeness on both sides seems to arise from misunderstanding; lost in translation. I read retro's post without feeling he was rude, just critical of the campaign wording which is in fact clumsy for some parts.

Also, your rewards are weird: 35$ for an adapter and 4 different cables and 45$ for an adapter and 4 alike cables? You better fix that before you get angry customers!

FG

 

Nope got you there its a lot of info to cover and I had some unfortunate luck with editors.

I don't understand your issue with that, could you please explain? I have only 3 $35 rewords non use that text? Actually none use the word different?

Reward #6
Single
Contents:
1:4-play box
1:USB Cable
1:Four a like cables.
Includes everything you need for use with one set of 4 cable

Reward #7
Full set of 4-play cables. This includes the cables only, one for each type of port we offer.

Reward #8
single - 4 cables of any kind.
Contents:
1:4-play box
1:USB Cable
1:Four cables of any kind, they do not all have to be the same.
Includes everything you need for use with three sets of 4 cable.

the $45 reward has a count of two in it. "2:Four a like cables."

 

My bad, although the rewards description is not clear in my opinion.

BTW I don't want to sound rude with this. Your project seems like a good one with high chances of being a success.

 

No its ok, I get the unclear bit. I did the best from what I was left to work with.

 

Hey hey! Great to see you over here - glad you accepted the invite and are answering questions in some detail.

Right, first thing's first. Constructive criticism is just that - criticism for constructive gain, with well-reasoned opinion. Choose to listen to it or ignore it - that's your decision, of course. Listen to my advice as someone with experience in design, marketing and proof reading or don't - your choice again. Just bear in mind that text has no tone - I try to write it with that in mind, but someone's always still gonna take it the wrong way ;-) I didn't assume anything - I asked questions on information I would like to know, as a potential purchaser, that I felt was missing. I fully admit, after your explanations, that I missed some of that information that was present - apologies for that. If such constructive criticism is a minor niggle about your marketing then a) that's testament to how good the product is and b) it's easy to fix! ;-) If you still choose not to take what I said (or indeed anyone else says) as constructive criticism, that's up to you.

Also, please don't see us as a community of people who are just going to damage your KS - that's not our intention. See us as a community of 20,000 people who are EXACTLY the potential customers your KS (and your product in future) is aimed at and take advantage of that fact. Feel free to utilize us as a focus group - find out what we like, what we don't like and what we'd like to see in future with your product. I think you'll find there are a lot of people here who are excited to see the product succeed and use it themselves.

OK, you seemed a little confused by some of my points, so let me try to clarify...

What I meant here was that your KS says "More controller ports can easily be added to the 4-Play's repertoire. All that's needed is a firmware update which can easily be applied from your PC via the 4-Play's USB port." A firmware update won't help if you don't sell the cable for some obscure controller! ;-) Admittedly, though, things not covered often use DB9 connectors. There's the CD-i mini DIN connector - do you have a cable for that?

Likewise, my comment on the Zapper was just about that simple phrasing you were using (use ANY controller) that wasn't quite true, and you have now changed. Superb! And, uhh, I chuckled at the thought of someone trying (with your future single player device) to use a Zapper on a Galaxy Mini or something like that! Hahaha!

That's my bad - I missed the link. That list is super awesome - thanks!! (Although it says "3dr party nane" hehe.) By the way, remember what you said about people only reading the first few forum posts? I guess it goes for KS listings, too. I'd somehow tuned out by that point - oops! The list I meant was the list of 17 controller ports, just under the OS logos.

Forgive me if I'm wrong here, but I don't think there's any list (yet) that combines the controllers with the list of 17 cables. That spreadsheet might benefit from that. Again, it's best to "dumb down" despite the average user being a competent gamer. You gloss over, for example, what a DB9 connector accepts.... but perhaps not every gamer knows an Atari 2600 port is called DB9. And you haven't listed every system there - that's fine, but it's good to have the link between the two, e.g.:

System: Atari 2600
Controller: Paddle
Cable: DB9

...although even easier implemented as an extra column in the spreadsheet! ;-) Somewhat like an EPROM programmer's device compatibility list.

I think people have pointed out to you what I was saying about the Saturn. Apparently you weren't aware that the Saturn multi-tap has 6 ports (plus the first port) and there are a fair few multiplayer games. For those 8-12 player games, you plug a second multitap into the first port. You might like this list of multitaps for various consoles, including several that support more than four players. I guess, in your words, you failed to read up on that? ;-)

So yeah... my question was whether I could use two 4-Plays (assuming emulator support) to have more than 4 controllers. I do believe you confirmed this would be possible - superb! Would this also work on an Android with a hub?

Whilst I far prefer gaming on the original console, I do have to admit that emulators are getting pretty decent nowadays. It's amazing to think that an Android tablet with this gizmo will allow you to play your console games anywhere, with friends, with the original controllers!

Oh and, FYI, I've already shown the KS to several game retailers as per my e-mail. They're very interested! Like me, they find the price point very attractive. Especially if you consider the price of an Android tablet or Raspberry Pi for an overall system.

Good to have you here, and clearing up any queries! Thanks for taking the time to check up on us! ;-)

 

And again I meant what I said, IMO its always best to ask then assume. Why would you think I need a new cable for something that goes in tot a db9? One obvious and extremely naive thinking (in the way of electrics) is to assume the power and ground pins are static. This is not the case with this design as we use "floating power pins" if you will. For example, the atari, sega, coleco, intv, and 3d0 do not all share the same setups. A power configuration is made, then a controller is probed, depending on the reply, that mode is now selected. So yes, all that is needed is a firmware update. And if you again read a bit further you will see, "If a new cable is required it can be made and available to purchase moving forward. ", because yes that may be required in some remote cases.


I do realize that the first part of the KS is important. And we addressed most of the none tech stuff up front on purpose. It's intended for the average person, you on the other hand are one to look further in to detail, so you would read on. Though yes the compatibility up front was a good suggestion. The first 3 paragraphs say it all, the rest are details. Your suggestions, where they were not an over sight/read, were great. I love that sort of thing, like the "nane" comment. To most people that may be the offensive but to me it saves embarrassment. What I really hate is when people say, your page is full of spelling mistakes and then mention none.

"not every gamer knows an Atari 2600 port is called DB9" That is the reason for the "(Sega Master System, Sega Genesis, Atari 2600, etc.)" the compatibility list uses friendly names like nes, atari, sega. Long info like that on a KS is bad. It sounds like I'm already listing the way you are suggesting What would you change? The list is intended for a non tech and more for a gamer to look up there controller my model or name. Its not there to support the KS, its there to support the project.

As for multi-taps yes, as I explained it was not part of this design. Disregard, not to be implemented, thus not researched. When you said "Would this also work on an Android with a hub?" I'm not sure if this refers to "I do believe you confirmed this would be possible" or this as in my current design. As for my design, it works on the following
( hence the large images on the KS )
Windows
OSX
Linux
Raspberry Pi
Android - This also included all android consoles (quya, M.O.J.O, Shield, eect)
PS3
Pretty much anything we try this on works.

 

You're misunderstanding me again. I said that I realize that most non-supported systems use DB9 (hence you already have the right cable). HOWEVER, if there were a system that, let's say used a SCSI port for a joystick connector. I know there isn't, this is just an example. You don't have a cable with a SCSI port on it. So you'd need a firmware update AND a cable with a SCSI port to make it work.

As you prefer questions, I'll phrase it as a question. Can you honestly say that your 17 cables will mate with EVERY kind of controller there is for consoles? If so, that's great!

Spelling mistakes happen. I have done a LOT of proofreading and they stick out to me. Glad you took it merely as a helpful comment rather than criticism - that's how it was intended ;-) Believe me, I've seen far worse errors in print. Like the story of a soldier who was brought home (to my town) for his funeral. The paper said "the soldier returned home today, he was killed in action when he stepped on a land mine, and his ashes were scattered." Wow, graphic!! ;-)

I completely agree that you want to balance on the KS between being informative and brief enough not to drag on and on. The DB9 "Sega etc." is fine on that page. Personally, I'd expand not on the page, but on the spreadsheet list as I mentioned. Or, another way to do it would be to have a (picture) chart with the connectors. I guess that would be simple and informative for those who aren't sure, whilst keeping it short. Yes, I'm thinking about the long-term picture, too. How would you represent this on the packaging for the 4-Play, for example? You'd need to mention the cables you can buy, but again you have limited space. An unenviable challenge ;-)

Again, I don't think you understand what I mean about the multitap thing. The Sega Saturn supports up to 12 players with two multitaps. Let's put the multitaps away, though. They're in a box, under the bed, and staying there. ;-)

So... I want to emulate that on my PC. I know I can use one 4-Play and have 4 players. What happens if I plug a second 4-Play into the same machine? Can I now have 8 players?

And what if I get an Android device, a USB hub and two 4-Play? Will this work? Of course, I guess this depends on the software I use more than anything.

In other words (forgive the crudeness of the picture! and assume there's an emulator/game on the Android that would know to look for 8 controllers), would this work?

 

Well this is a retro console device, countless hours and days have been spent looking for systems since 2007. It's a console not computer adapter. That was also outlined up front. Though I still covered that by saying a cable could be made (granted later on).

Maybe you just simply mean to say use this
More controllers can easily be added to the 4-Play's repertoire
as apposed to
More controller ports can easily be added to the 4-Play's repertoire
And on that note I agree, damn editors...

I do. but I did put a disclaimer that a cable can be made. An example is the gameport for computers. Even though that is not the aim of this project its been requested a lot. Another example is xbox, and it's just a USB. I can't decode a USB protocol on such a small chip. And it is also a bit redundant.


BTW: I'll keep the port type comments in mind.

I really thought I answered that, but no matter. This is not by my design, it's by the design of the emulator and USB spec. I have zero control over this. In theory you may have 128 USB device on a USB root port. That means 32 4-play adapters. Whether the emulator let's you configure up to x players is of its own choosing as you pointed out. The 4-play has a hub in it so to be technical that is 128 minus each hub (25 max 4-plays). FYI Windows DirectInput max Joystick is unlimited (from wiki) and windows itself also has no limit either.

 

All sounds good, thanks! I don't see much point supporting a USB device that can probably be connected with little trouble, anyway - quite right. And it's mostly just semantics in your editorial that I picked up on, you're right again there!

I'm actually excited to think that this device could make (Android) emulator writers rethink their controller support!

Actually, question on that (which will show why I was wondering about two 4-Plays on an Android perhaps). My experience of Android with controllers is solely linking a Wiimote via bluetooth. You have to set it as your active keyboard. Do you have to do this with the 4-Play? I'm assuming perhaps not... otherwise I don't see how two would work.

The only negative I really see that isn't fixable is that blissbox.com is a sex toy / porn shop! Considering they have had that name for 13 years, I think I'd have vetoed Bliss-Box as a name from day one. ;-)

 

Ok first I do not have a lot of experience with Andoid but I do prefer them over 'I' stuff. I do own one and I also have it moded with usb host. Most of my knowledge is from my users of the Bliss-Box. I have heard some axis will not work. There are 8 possible axis on a HID.

From what I know the androids will not see some of these. My box, when the wii nun chuck is connected will use the cross hair for tumb controller, the x,y,z rotation's for rotations, and z axis slider, dial for thrust moments. So some of those will not work if what I here is correct. Though you should not have to use a keyboard.

The phrase Blissbox is used for a lot of things, music, porn, lights, gifts, ect... The only reason you and (100000000000000000000000 ) other people make that blind assumption is that the majority of people that get on the web like naked women. The definition of Bliss and/or box have no direct association even what put together. It's just a matter of numbers and google likes numbers. Yes it has been made aware many times and many people like to chuckle about it. The name 4-play was semi adapted from that joke. It is not negative at all, its just funny.

remove these links if you like, as it may be spam like..

In my search I get

http://bareblissbox.com/
http://www.mysubscriptionaddiction.com/category/bare-bliss-box-reviews
http://www.weplemons.com/whatisbliss.html
http://www.yogiblissbox.com/
http://www.booking.com/hotel/nl/bliss-box.html
http://blog.thespiritualcatalyst.com/bliss-box/
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bliss-Box/662469603794069
http://www.reverbnation.com/blissbox/song/17488780-immaculate-deception

I dont see any porn crap mainly because I'm at work and its turned off. So it will depend on your settings, if you see the porn stuff first, YOUR A PERVERT J/K Though google does show you what you are interested first. I have 3 pages of my adapter.

Take note it is "Bliss-box" not Blissbox and if you had a need to avoid the porn stuff use adapter with it. The name came from putting bliss in the a box, its actually Bliss->box but used a dash for obvious reasons.

 

I got a question for you ulao: Does the 4-play supports reading/writing from/to the VMU? I know it can display a screen, but can it access the filesystem?

 

I do like the 4-Play name, that made me chuckle with that (non-)association! Are you going to use "play with yourself" as the single player, Zapper compatible device's slogan?

Hotel Bliss Box... not sure I'd want to stay there!

That's interesting about how it's seen in Windows. I'm wondering if the keyboard thing is just the way the third party Wiimote interface software decides to output the signal - bluetooth in, emulate a keyboard as output. I'll have to find another Android-compatible USB controller to see what that does.

 

It might simply be a simple way to increase compatibility.

I got an iControlPad¹ that I use on android and there's a lot of different modes for it, HID gamepad works for all the emulators I got, detecting the right buttons and analogs works well for n64 per example. They support and HID keyboard mode for compatibility, so programs that weren't made with HID gamepad in mind can be used with the controller by emulating keyboard presses. Maybe they do it this way for the wiimote as it's non-HID-gamepad compliant and it's less of a hassle to code a HID keyboard than a gamepad.

That said, a 4play would be WAY better that an iCP for multiplayer/livingroom gaming, I just want to say that HID gamepad works well on android as long as the programs support it; and HID keyboard might be used for compatibility.


¹The iCP is a nice little bluetooth controller if you use the lastest firmware, although the maker of it Craig Rothwell is a major asshole and scammer, the iCP2 kickstarter was a total fiasco. Stay away from that guy but if you find an iCP for a good price it's a nice item.