Microsoft forum

Paulo, I think cez and wan5 hit it on the head. As moderators you should not feel afraid to step up and remove someone (and that could be anyone, veteran member or newbie) that is acting like an ass.

The boards have a "report post" button, so you shouldn't be required to read every thread. If something rises to the level of asshattery, chances are good that someone will click the button and you'll know to come check it out. The issue is what is done after that.

Everyone has their bad days and it's always possible for a user to be a bit cranky for no real reason, but once a mod tells people to knock it off, they should. If they don't, then that's the point at which it is time to start warning/deleting posts/banning.

The simple fact of the matter is that the Microsoft forum has had an influx of new users who all seem to have recently gotten kits. Some have contributed to the discussion and are active participants who help share knowledge. Others seem to do nothing more than tell others how "special" they are or act as "vouching fanboys" in the marketplace threads. It is only the XDK "for sale" threads that see this behaviour, where someone will post a kit for sale and then you'll have 5-6 (typically new) users all posting "vouches." No other for sale threads have this, so seeing the group mentality is a bit odd.

Ultimately the goal should be to attract the former set of users while discouraging the latter set.

The ASSEMbler boards are attractive precisely because they are a forum for reading, learning and sharing information. Elitism and scenesters have no place here.

If anything, the mods have been too lenient as Xenon mentions. Even a quick look at the marketplace bears this out, as ASSEMbler himself has decided to change the rule banning the sale of CDR/warezed copies of current SDK tools, instead allowing them to be sold alongside hardware. Something like this is bound to attract unwanted attention.

The rules that the site had were good rules. You don't need to change them and you don't need to ignore them. When Paulo was posting in the last thread in the Microsoft forum he was quoting some of them. Next time, a situation arises the mods need to take the step from merely quoting to actually enforcing.

If you're willing to take this step, then the Microsoft forum can be just as useful (and drama free) as any other forum on the board. Don't let a few spoil it for the many.

-hl718

 

Honestly I bet you I could put an end to the crap and drama that goes on in that section.. The way you guys are doing it is just off.

No offense but you guys didn't stop much. You don't need to delete valuable posts, or delete posts at all, you need to step up a bit, you technically don't even need to ban anyone, it's just the way you guys put the message across is terrible.

 

Oh and I'd like to add that some moderators even contributed to the trolling at times with some short statements that were made that could potentially instigate arguments.

 

You are exactly right, now there isn't a high horse for them to jump up on. I'll be willing to bet this won't happen at xbox scene. It's bad to see the forum go, and those that were the cause of this should of been dealt with not the entire community. But I guess there was just so many that it was just better to end the section. All good things must come to an end for new ones to begin, bring on the retail homebrew scene.

Hawk

 

I might be the only person, but I appreciate the forum removal. We should as well ban XDK hardware (and software, of course) sales from the marketplaces until Xbox 360 doesn't belong to the "current" generation anymore.

Reason: Most XDKs are used more and more to pirate current-gen (or even beta) stuff. This long isn't collecting anymore, it's plain piracy.

 

tmbinc, that's something I don't agree with. If someone wants to sell their hardware, they should be able to, you kill that aswell, I'd see alot of members go lol.

You can pirate games with a retail as well, hell you can pirate shit on alot of dev consoles, I don't know what your point is.. lol.

I have a dev, and if I like a game company for their work, I buy their games to support them.

I actually know a couple of people that actually develop here that got their consoles from this website and made a difference in the 360 community.

To remove the microsoft section for people getting out of hand, ok, but to restrict people from selling their Xbox hardware? That seems off..

 

You're funny, you must be a comedian.

 

Well you raise very good points. Though there are many issues that are out of scope to be discussed here.

Firstly ill deal with the first comment about moderators. Its not that we are not willing to step up and point out to people (Both in PM's and in threads) when they have the wrong attitude. We do that in every possible occasion. The thing is deleting offending posts/PMing members is the most we can do as Yakumo has pointed out. Any other decisions are made by the ASSEMbler him self.

So while we can say to him this and this happened we don't like this person we cant actually remove them. At the end of the day its a community and you all have the option of as a group calling these members out to ASSEMbler him self in a PM! The overall forum opinion might sway him to remove certain members that can be a problem from time to time.

Next would be the report function. I read my email constantly and i check out most reports. However while there are many people who report there is at least 4 times the amount of people who don't. Its also become quiet clear from the marketplace that people who dislike some ones post would rather retaliate then actually report the post for removal. This causes difficulties as once you have started replying to the trolls you become one of them and then we have to decide who started it, who is worse or are they just as bad as each other.

On the marketplace issue me and ASSEMbler had a discussion about it last night and we did throw the idea around about banning all sales of 360 dev hardware but currently we have not taken that step. On the one hand we all understand why it might put users off if we took this step. However it is an idea we are clearly thinking of and with the removal of the Microsoft forum any members who see the forum only as an opportunity to sell their wares probably aren't all that valuable to the community here in the long run.

Thats clearly an example of the attitude that has caused the closure of the forum. People that feel that they can start an argument with moderators because they dont like their decision are the cause of this. Not only do they not respect the moderators they dont even listen to the owner of this site. Also before you say anything this has been said time after time if you do not agree with a decision or anything a moderator has said a thread is not a place to carry it on. The correct place is ASSEMblers PM box where he can deal with the situation and take action. If enough of you decided you dont like the moderation policies then you need to let ASSEMbler know via the correct methods.

 

Kev, that has to be some kind of error? I don't fully understand and perhaps I have missed some highly insulting posts over the last few days while I was off down South and had no Internet access, but whooooo!

Granted that Xbox V1 is not terribly popular, but it now seems to have been singled out for punishment. The 360 is a particularly important piece of dev hardware and is going to be sadly lacking on this site.

Can we perhaps have the section back and this situation discussed as this is a severe blow to Xbox fans and those who have posted genuinely important, useful or even interesting material are being punished for no real reason.

 

Maybe the need to just give the microsoft forum a break to cool down
it was getting intense , so maybe you guys should re-open it in say 3-4 months giving everyone time to cool down?

 

Why not at least post the useful information back up and lock the forum for new posts until it can be fully discussed. I feel that many hundreds of useful posts are being consigned to the bin due to a small minority of people spoiling it for the bulk of reasonable members.

 

Xenon.7:

To quote the marketplace rules, they say:

"MODCHIPS and ROM copiers:

Not allowed for current generation hardware except in rare exceptions.

XBOX 360 - The only modded 360 allowed is a linux system, using a chip,
exploit or other to load linux. This is the ONLY exception."

Currently, it looks like most sold Dev360 are just used as (expensive) modchips. The tutorials in the microsoft forum were like "how to convert a retail DVD image to debug with 3 clicks" and "How can I fix the damage that shadow complex leaked "beta" had done??". Seriously, I can't see much people actually *developing* with it. Oh, and I don't even speak of the PN abuse.

This is not con piracy, it's con piracy talk on assemblergames forums, in the same way as we don't want any modchip questions there (since it's an active console).

 

Ah I didn't see that rule..

Regardless most people who buy devs now adays use them to mod Halo 3..

I strongly disagree with the removal of their sales..

 

If you want to pirate, buy a retail. Devs don't promote piracy in any way.

 

This is your forum, Kev.

If members choose to ignore the rules and show a total lack of respect, then you're well within you right to start swinging the hammer of discipline.

I'm sure that the majority of members would trust your judgement on who's making a worthwhile contribution to the forum and who's disrupting progress.

Also, as mentioned earlier, it's not ideal expecting you and the mods to be on top of everything as there's so much going on.

Us regular members who enjoy this site should be doing more to help wherever possible to alert staff of any rogue users.

This is one forum i'd hate to see lost to idiots.

 

While I don't think an outright hardware ban (or forum delete) will solve the issue, I do agree with the main thrust of tmbinc's statements. One of the big draws of the ASSEMbler forums has always been its strong stance against piracy. It is a distinction that is a fine line, but one that the forum has generally managed to navigate well.

I take it you are purposefully excluding all those who buy/sell/use pirated copies of the SDK from your statement?

Like it or not, it is a simple fact that pirating a game on a devkit is a much easier prospect than on a retail. As tmbinc pointed out there wasn't a whole lot of "deving" going on in the Microsoft forums. Which, by itself, isn't a horribly bad thing so long as people are sharing information. Looking back at the forum however, the sharing of information was replaced on multiple ocassions by the dangling of information. That's what hurt the forum the most.

As the famous rule 3 points out, if you can't be positive, don't bother posting. When people post the equivalent of "I know the answer, but I'm not going to tell you!" it doesn't do anyone any good. And we saw that in the Microsoft forum over the past few weeks.

-hl718

 

No one sells the SDK. It's included with the sale because it's needed to use a kit.

Pirating games on a dev is harder than a retail. Dev: Extract, x360gamehack, copy to kit. Retail: Mod (or get a premod) and burn

 

Agreed 100%.

A devkit will function just fine without a copy of the SDK. You do not need the SDK in any way shape or form to use a devkit.

Just because the SDK is a development tool and not a game doesn't make it any less of an act of blatant piracy. A warezed copy of a game is no different than a warezed copy of an SDK. If people want to torrent stuff elsewhere, that's not really an issue for the site, but it seems a bit wrong to me for this site to directly condone the sale/transfer of warezed/pirated current generation SDKs in the marketplace.

The only difference between selling a 360 devkit with a warezed copy of the SDK and a modded 360 retail kit with a warezed copy of a game is that the SDK has a retail price that is many times more expensive than than of the game.

As for your second bit, you've added an extra step to the dev chain (you don't need to copy to the kit) and left out a few on the retail side (dump image, ensure proper SS and verify your image before burning). Pirating on a dev is a two-step process that's idiot proof and noob-friendly. It's also near imposible to mess up, which isn't true for the retail kits if the forums at Xbox-Scene are any indication.

-hl718

 

A modded drive and a dev kit are pretty much the same but the dev kit allows for more piracy from other regions ect. Plus you dont have to use a disc on a dev kit, and I mean neither is hard to do and in reality the dev kit is easier and better for piracy just because it can play ANY game from ANY region. Normal people dont have other region consoles so they can't pirate the games that a dev kit will allow. But in the end either one can be used for piracy, neither is hard or easier then the other.

I say if the forum goes so should the sells, most of the people that where disrespectful are the ones that sell kits so of coarse they don't want the sells to be barred from here. Either way is fine with me, it's in the mods, and admin's hands now.

Hawk