Well that's easy. Consoles need modchips and hacks to work, and are often bitches (and illegal) to make homebrew for. PCs are OK, but they come in all flavours, so making programs work well on all variaties is hard, tme consuming and frustrating.
The only thing that was discussed was an encrypted bios, not the OS at all, so in reality what we are discussing is an open source PC structure console where it was concentrated on 2D. So if you were a developer, then you could develop directly without thinking of any other thing than ram restrictions, and CPU speed. And then there is Shadowlayers overly pessimistic views on its reality . So there is no worrying on it, other than what I have already said.
@mr. newbie: Yeah, they might not care for a system that may have a userbase of 100, but it wasn't really meant for them to claim game sales on anyways (though an added bonus and a possible selling point of the system). @opethfan: 2.5" HDDs would be fine, as you don't need an exuberant amount of storage capacity. Plus, 2.5" drives use less power and would allow that much smaller of an enclosure for the system. 160GB max. (would say 80-120GB realistically) is all that's needed, and there are SATA 2.5" HDDs available. Speed of the HDD is moot as it still has to load files into RAM, and the difference between 2.5" and 3.5" is barely noticeable in comparison (unless you are referring to WD Raptors running at 10k rpm or SCSI HDDs used for A/V editing, which would be pointless to use for expense and heat reasons alone). @WolverineDK: The general discussion on the OS was Liunx and FreeDOS, and to be more general, what to use for the most basic of OS (kernel and as few extensions as needed). The encrypted BIOS and CPU discussions kinda ran parallel, and an item I mentioned that (I thought) fit in was the fact that Via has the Padlock Engine (which is capable of AES-256) on some of their CPUs available on several Mini-ITX boards. The problem with that solution is that the CPUs are only available as part of a motherboard kit as they're soldered on instead of socketed.
OK, look guys I'm not pessimistic, I'm just realistic, k? I'm just saying we could get much more hype if the console is a portable since an old PC or a modded Xbox can do the same for less. But if we make a portable it could take the market by storm. Need apps and games? send a proto to Yoyo and you'll get emus for most 16bit consoles plus ports of Quake and Doom. On the other hand since its X86 we could just run most emus out there. In fact if we use the PicoITX with a C7 CPU we could run Quake3A and Counter Strike (amogn other games of similar requeriments) in that thing, and I can assure you at least one in 100 CS players would get one of our consoles if they can play the game on the go. Honestly I'm getting excited about this project so it would be great if we can take it seriously and try to come up with something. Maybe we could all end up working in the industry:nod:
That could be an option, except Pico ITX is still kinda big, plus building a portable console costs quite a bit more than a system underneath a TV. Also, there's the GP2X, which is pretty much the same thing, but with way more infrastructure and support, the PSP which has a great homebrew community, and the DS which is growing rapidly. We have the option of making a really small home console or a huge portable one, not to mention that bringing up CS pretty much spits on the idea of a 2D console 'without limits' which was the original plan here.
Look you gotta think like a businessman, not a gamer, k? As you said, if we make a portable 2D console we're doomed, cuz anyone can pick up a GPX2 or a PSP for less and get basically the same thing. Plus theres the fact that homebrew 2D games are pretty scarse and the quality is below average, and with no anti-piracy no one will ever want to code for our console. Having a X86 system, even if not that powerful, opens a lot of doors for us, and we can still make the original idea. If you ask me this is the only way we can do this, break even and maybe having some success with it. EDIT: about the pico ITX being too big, well... We could make the whole thing smaller than a original Gameboy...
:lol: What was it you were saying the other week about the market for portables? I also love how you're the "realistic" one, when 1/ there's no real money behind this, 2/ there are no business/manufacturing/hardware/software professionals on board to help you, and 3/ blatantly none of you have a clue how expensive manufacturing a retail product is. I mean, a few pages back you were talking about dual SH4s, for Christ's sake. With all due respect you have no idea about the practicalities of what you're talking about. I don't mean to spit on dreams, this conversation was fun when it was all hypotheticals, but at some point you have to realise that what your proposing is absurd. 6 pages in is probably a good point.
Well guess whos back? talk about trolling... Nah I dont recall what I said last week, got any idea? And damn I just organized a investors meeting, guess we have to cancel Dude seriously, if we were anywhere near making business, do you think we would discuss this in a public forum? this is barely a mindstorm... About getting the money, shit pal, you sure dont know how to get anything besides a loan right? if the gizmondo guys with their crap hardware and dumb ideas could raise $400 million I guess we can get some venture capital if we wanted to. I'm no saying we're about to launch IPO's, but hell, look at the guys from the Optimus keyboard: technically is still vaporware (since there were no live units to check) is going to cost like $1500 (did I mention its just a keyboard?) and the first run of 200 units its already gone just hours after preorders started. And our project is not even as complex as theirs, we're using off the shelves parts that anyone with a minor knowledge in PC assembly could put together. But hell, I guess playing around with a OLED keyboard is more fun than whats basically amounts to a gaming UMPC, which is more or less what we're doing here.
You said this: Here. You've certainly changed your tune, eh? Whatever you say, buddy. You're a really convincing speaker. Let me know when you're done making this thing and maybe I'll buy one off you.
Well yes and no: the entire NASDAQ went down in a historic record just 6 years ago yet now we see a whole new batch of internet companies with a business model that is not much more solvent that the last one, yet investors keep pumping money into the market. So I guess is all a matter of how convincing your strategy is...
companies or investors use what is called a track record of a market. A statistical analysis to estimate the risk involved in a certain venture. Prudent investors do that anyway. Semi-console designs based on computers is something that so far only MS has successfuly pulled with the original XBOX and didn't make a dime. You d be needing one very sweet uncle for that kind of risk-taking.
Actually my dad has way more resources than any of my uncles, so in any case I should speak with him. BTW, whats with you and uncles? were you "Touched by an Uncle"?:lol:
Shadowlayer: Perhaps you are a realist, but you are definitely pessimistic in your words, and your speech isn´t touching me. Since to you it is either your way, or the highway. Or in your words it is YOUR way or no way ! That is why I am really saying you are pessimistic in your views on its reality. Since I am a realist too, but I don´t have pessimistic thoughts about the reality I am living in (sorry for going offtopic), but I am always trying to see the positive in a reality of making an X86 NON handheld open source 2D console. With no antipiracy, because of the word open source. Perhaps I am a socalled naiive positive thinking man, then you are wrong. I am a realist, into its core. So a damn handheld isn´t the answer.
think different, that's how Linux got started, and although open source, it does turn some revenue and indirect benefits of some kind for mr. Linus
exactly my toughs... this is why i showed everybody how cheap would be to make a x86 via C7 based console... motherboard+processor around 100$ only.. on a mini-itx (read my previous posts). and such prices are for ONE piece.. i'm sure it would be possible to get a NICE price for a good amount... that solution i posted back ago had EVERYTHING on board... 3d, video, audio, special chip for multimedia streaming etc, etc... you just missed a HD and cd/dvd drive. also using a customized version of linux would allow us to have a consolish stile or even mediacenter style OS in wich the people interested in just playing would not feel lost, and would give use a WIDE base of already made, high quality games and applications.
Karsten: we are totally on the same page, since I have read your posts. Since 100 bucks isn´t really that much, when I would gladly save 500 bucks up to buy the kevtris clone. And again, you are right all the way.
Thats a completely different market, like saying the Xbox and Windows are the exact same thing... Is easier to make O-S software cuz you just copy it to the infinite, but what about physical production of items? you need money to do so. What we could do if keeping with the non-handheld ITX strategy is making an OS that runs on this enviroment, then selling kits for people to put together their own units, like that new Amiga (only that that one is pretty expensive). And even then we wont see anything more than emulators running on this thing, for the simple fact that no antipiracy at all equals no developers making games for it. The only non-emulated game I can see running on this console is another port of beats of rage, but thats all.
Selling people off-the-shelf components to make the PC themselves? What a compelling business plan. Just one question: why would they bother paying you a premium in the first place, if all your software is open-source and freely available?
